Common self contradiction of the religious

[LostLocke]

"Something can't come from nothing!" Unless you propose a magic man to create the something from nothing, because magic fixes everything.

Then where did the universe come from, you seem to be implying you have an answer?

I think he's asking you, where did the universe come from?
We understand the idea of God creating the universe, but where did it, or the stuff of it, come from?

[Chad32]

If you insist that something can be eternal, we can say space is eternal. Matter and energy pop in and out all the time, so why do we need someone to speak things into existence.

How about you prove that a sentient being can both be eternal, and that speaking things into existence is possible, and we'll give your god hypothesis more credit.

We are accountable to society. That's doesn't mean that all the bad people will surely be punished, and all the good people will surely be rewarded. Then again, Jeffrey Dahmer and Adolf Hitler are probably in heaven right now, while law abiding people who contributed to society without murdering anyone could be in hell, because they were born in the wrong part of the world.

[Rampant.A.I.]

"Something can't come from nothing!" Unless you propose a magic man to create the something from nothing, because magic fixes everything.

Then where did the universe come from, you seem to be implying you have an answer?

Where did God come from? What did God make the universe from?

"Well, the second law of thermodynamics means the universe can't exist forever", yet god conveniently is able to bypass this law which was just used to demonstrate his existence, with his magic powers. How convenient!

The universe was created to last forever, until sin corrupted creation, the 2nd law took effect.

Source? If that happened 6,000 years ago, why does the 2nd law effect the 14 billion year history of the universe as we know it?

"There is no moral accountability without a god", yet Jesus's death wipes away all their sins and misdeeds, making moral accountability non existent.

If there is no morally superior Being, then who do you suggest we be morally ac countable to. Jesus brings us to moral accountability, study the NT to find this out.

There is no moral accountability with a God. Confession only works to escape secular accountability. People can rape, murder, steal, rape children for years on end, then simply apologize and they're off the hook with clergy to protect them. What kind of "accountability" is that?!

"The universe needs a cause, it is absurd for it to exist without a cause!" yet the being they are proposing exists without a cause, brilliant!

You tell me, how does an eternal being have a cause or beginning if you prefer?

GC

How does an eternally contracting-expanding universe have a cause or a beginning if you prefer?

Why should anything be eternal, and why does an all powerful, all knowing conscious being eternal make more sense than an eternally contracting-expanding universe?

What would such an entity have to be conscious OF without a universe? What would such a being KNOW if there was nothing TO know? Why would that being know morality if there were only ONE entity?

[Tonus]

Here's a mind-bender: if god is an eternal being, that means that he literally waited forever to create the Earth!

[Rampant.A.I.]

Here's a mind-bender: if god is an eternal being, that means that he literally waited forever to create the Earth!

What did God do during that time?

With no peers, no social interaction, how would morality exist without them?

Does eternity make sense without time?

If God created space and time where there was none before, how can we say for certain God is eternal? Does it not make more sense to say God existed, then time existed, therefore God predates time, but is not eternal in the true sense of the word?

[Godscreated]

If you insist that something can be eternal, we can say space is eternal. Matter and energy pop in and out all the time, so why do we need someone to speak things into existence.

How about you prove that a sentient being can both be eternal, and that speaking things into existence is possible, and we'll give your god hypothesis more credit.

We are accountable to society. That's doesn't mean that all the bad people will surely be punished, and all the good people will surely be rewarded. Then again, Jeffrey Dahmer and Adolf Hitler are probably in heaven right now, while law abiding people who contributed to society without murdering anyone could be in hell, because they were born in the wrong part of the world.

Are you trying to dodge the questions I asked, seems so to me, and you are trying to reroute this conversation about who goes to heaven, please stay on topic.

GC

[Rampant.A.I.]

If you insist that something can be eternal, we can say space is eternal. Matter and energy pop in and out all the time, so why do we need someone to speak things into existence.

How about you prove that a sentient being can both be eternal, and that speaking things into existence is possible, and we'll give your god hypothesis more credit.

We are accountable to society. That's doesn't mean that all the bad people will surely be punished, and all the good people will surely be rewarded. Then again, Jeffrey Dahmer and Adolf Hitler are probably in heaven right now, while law abiding people who contributed to society without murdering anyone could be in hell, because they were born in the wrong part of the world.

Are you trying to dodge the questions I asked, seems so to me, and you are trying to reroute this conversation about who goes to heaven, please stay on topic.

GC

You brought up moral accountability.

[orangebox21]

I seen a thread in one section called "abiogenesis is impossible", yet they believe somehow proposing a magic man to do abiogenesis with magic makes it OK.

"Something can't come from nothing!" Unless you propose a magic man to create the something from nothing, because magic fixes everything.

If God exists then something (the universe) didn't come from nothing, it came from a creator.

"Well, the second law of thermodynamics means the universe can't exist forever", yet god conveniently is able to bypass this law which was just used to demonstrate his existence, with his magic powers. How convenient!

Is your argument here that God can't exist forever because He is subject to the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

"There is no moral accountability without a god", yet Jesus's death wipes away all their sins and misdeeds, making moral accountability non existent.

Jesus death on the cross does not make moral accountability non existent but rather the accountability is transfered from the sinner onto Christ at the cross. As Colossians 2:14 says: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

"The universe needs a cause, it is absurd for it to exist without a cause!" yet the being they are proposing exists without a cause, brilliant!

The reason that the universe requires a cause is because the current scientific data is interpreted to say that the universe cannot be eternal. If the universe was eternal it wouldn't need a cause. If the universe is not eternal, then it must have a cause.

Theist:"Where did the universe come from? It couldn't have existed forever because the 2nd law."
Me:"The universe is made of magic pixie dust, it can create itself."
Theist:"How can it create itself? Isn't that logically incoherent?"
Me:"Oh, this is a special transcendent pixie dust, and is above the laws of logic, so it doesn't apply. Without the universe creating itself, how else could it exist? Something can't come from nothing unless it causes itself to exist!(that is my metaphysical assumption you need to accept)"
Theist:"...."

....then something didn't come from nothing.

[Rampant.A.I.]

I'm sorry, how is the idea that something created itself any more logically consistent from something from nothing?

What is nothing?

What is causality without time?

[Minimalist]

You tell me, how does an eternal being have a cause or beginning if you prefer?

And now all you have to do, G-C is produce evidence that your fucking invisible sky-daddy exists and you'll be on to something.

We'll wait.

(P.S. - don't try to use your fucking bible.)