Atheist Utopia

[Brian37]

Here's just a flight of fancy. Suppose there was an atheist "See the truth" ray and everybody forgot about religion overnight ...what sort of society would we like to see set up? I can foresee it should be a fairer sort of society all round , but I can already envisage that it wouldn't be one size fits all.....for instance Vegetarians and Vegans might want to set up independent states so they can live the way they want without imposing their eating habits on others....anybody else got any thoughts?

Yes, I am with Dawkins in blaming Plato for his bad ideas that set up all the bad logic in humanity that followed. His ideas of questioning were not a bad thing. Where Plato went wrong is that he had no clue how important testing and falsification are in reality. Where politics and religion in the future were unduly influenced was his bad idea of "If you simply think about something you can find its essence". Utopian thought in humans exploded because of that bad idea and we still suffer from it today.

If you want a better understanding read his preface to "The Greatest Show On Earth".

Bottom line for me, even when atheists do it it gives me a lip twitch, I really hate speculating about utopias because there will never be any such thing. The world I could see being more peaceful but ultimately humans still have individual desires and still would include cruelty and compassion.

[thesummerqueen]

There's plenty of unfair shit that goes down without god entering the conversation at all (except superficially).

Pretty sure the Koch brothers and their ilk don't give a shit about religion, except in as far as money is their god.

Getting rid of god without injecting the world automatically with common sense, higher IQ's, and a sense of empathy and compassion just frees a lot of people up to spend their Wednesdays and Sundays figuring out heinous things to fill up their free time.

[MindForgedManacle]

Yes, I am with Dawkins in blaming Plato for his bad ideas that set up all the bad logic in humanity that followed. His ideas of questioning were not a bad thing. Where Plato went wrong is that he had no clue how important testing and falsification are in reality. Where politics and religion in the future were unduly influenced was his bad idea of "If you simply think about something you can find its essence". Utopian thought in humans exploded because of that bad idea and we still suffer from it today.

I don't follow this. As far as I remember, Plato's writings on essence had to do with metaphysics relating to the concept of an object, not politics. So I really don't see what that has to do with what you're saying.

If you want a better understanding read his preface to "The Greatest Show On Earth".

Bottom line for me, even when atheists do it it gives me a lip twitch, I really hate speculating about utopias because there will never be any such thing. The world I could see being more peaceful but ultimately humans still have individual desires and still would include cruelty and compassion.

I don't like talking about utopias because I think the concept of perfection is probably incoherent, or at the very least poorly defined. However, I have no problem talking about an ideal - yet imperfect - society. Nor do I think it's impossible for there to be one.

[Tonus]

Here's just a flight of fancy. Suppose there was an atheist "See the truth" ray and everybody forgot about religion overnight ...what sort of society would we like to see set up?

What sort would I like to see, or what sort would I expect to see? I'd like to see one where the human instinct for forming tribal groups and defending them irrationally disappeared along with religion. I expect that it would not, and that there would still be plenty of ways in which we would split into groups and waste far too much precious time fighting over trivial differences.

Although the primary difference would have to be the recognition that the life we have is the one shot that we get, which might just force people to be more cooperative. At least in regards to areas like technology and medicine and genetics, since we would be more inclined to actually try to find solutions to many of our problems instead of just waiting for some outside agent to solve them eventually.

[KichigaiNeko]

My "ideal" would be everyone keeps their religions to themselves.

[Simon Moon]

There's plenty of unfair shit that goes down without god entering the conversation at all (except superficially).

Pretty sure the Koch brothers and their ilk don't give a shit about religion, except in as far as money is their god.

Getting rid of god without injecting the world automatically with common sense, higher IQ's, and a sense of empathy and compassion just frees a lot of people up to spend their Wednesdays and Sundays figuring out heinous things to fill up their free time.

Pretty much...


The powerful would just find other irrational beliefs and dogma to use to manipulate the masses with.

[Brian37]

Hookers and blow?

"You said there would be no hookers Stan!" Angry wife from Bachelor Party.