The vanilla bean-evolutionary quandry

[professor]

Just read about it.
Native to Mexico, the vine was brought to Europe in the 1500s but the plant would not pollinate over there.
It is fertile one morning per year and must be done within 12 hours.

Later, it was found out there is a certain kind of bee that knows how to lift a little hood-like membrane to expose the goodies.
The Melipona bee does it's thing from flower to flower and the fruit that comes forth is vanilla.
The bee AND the plant needed to be on the scene from day one, or there would be NO vanilla ice-cream today.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

psst....'coevolution'...pass it on....

Boru

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

The arguments just keep getting dumber and dumber. You'd think at some point they'd just give up but no.

[professor]

Co-evolution.....?
Those bees and vines sure were lucky to make themselves at exactly the same time.
Whoda thought.. Maybe a blind date?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Co-evolution.....?
Those bees and vines sure were lucky to make themselves at exactly the same time.
Whoda thought.. Maybe a blind date?

That's the whole point of coevolution - they didn't make themselves at the same time. Look up the word, study up a bit, and get back to us. You aren't going to get anywhere parroting someone else's ignorance.

Boru

[Rampant.A.I.]

Co-evolution.....?
Those bees and vines sure were lucky to make themselves at exactly the same time.
Whoda thought.. Maybe a blind date?

co·ev·o·lu·tion
ˌkōevəˈlo͞oSHən,-ēvə-/
nounBIOLOGY
the influence of closely associated species on each other in their evolution.

Your argument assumes:
1. Evolution does not take place
2. Therefore the plant and bee have always been in the same form there are now.

The more likely scenario: The bee and food source co-evolved over a long period of time, thus appear in the form they are today.

The Vanilla Bean orchid is estimated to be 60-70 million years old. Do you think it might have changed in that amount of time?

Bees, the largest (>16,000 species) and most important radiation of pollinating insects, originated in early to mid-Cretaceous, roughly in synchrony with the angiosperms (flowering plants). Understanding the diversification of the bees and the coevolutionary history of bees and angiosperms requires a well supported phylogeny of bees (as well as angiosperms). We reconstructed a robust phylogeny of bees at the family and subfamily levels using a data set of five genes (4,299 nucleotide sites)

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/41/15118.full

Do you think some of the 16,000 species bees may have adapted to the plants they evolved to feed from?

[Napoléon]

A good documentary series to watch on biodiversity and how animals and plants rely on each other:

http://www.chrispackham.co.uk/television...ing-planet

Chris reveals:
Why a crab in the swamps of Bangladesh needs a tiger
Why the mighty Brazil nut tree needs a rare orchid and a small rodent
Why a small gecko in Kenya needs a giraffe
Why the North American lynx needs a tiny moth caterpillar

Clip:




The Brazil nut episode is probably the best one showcasing three completely different species all having a massive effect on each other's survival. Without one the others would not be able to survive. I can't seem to find the clip on youtube though but if I find it I'll update this post.


But I'm struggling to understand what 'evolutionary quandary' we are talking about. Completely unique ecosystems have evolved all over the world. The Galapagos Islands have species not found elsewhere in the world, and many of the species there wouldn't be able to survive anywhere else. Is it really a surprise that animals would evolve in tandem and develop reliances with other species depending on their environment?

I guess it is to someone who doesn't understand evolution.

[SteelCurtain]

Ahh... co-evolution. Yet another example of the awesome predictive power of Darwin's theory.

Case in point, the Madagascar Sphinx Moth and the Comet Orchid:

[Napoléon]

I still couldn't find the video I was looking for but I did find something else that basically sums up what I was thinking of (come to think of it I'm not sure if it was a Chris Packham documentary).

Either way:
http://iwanticewater.wordpress.com/2013/...razil-nut/

I'd give a quote but you really need to read the whole thing to get how each species relies on each other.

[Ravenshire]

Just read about it.
Native to Mexico, the vine was brought to Europe in the 1500s but the plant would not pollinate over there.
It is fertile one morning per year and must be done within 12 hours.

Later, it was found out there is a certain kind of bee that knows how to lift a little hood-like membrane to expose the goodies.
The Melipona bee does it's thing from flower to flower and the fruit that comes forth is vanilla.
The bee AND the plant needed to be on the scene from day one, or there would be NO vanilla ice-cream today.

Would you please, please, please change your fucking user name?!? You insult every professor in the world, even the one on Gilligan's Island, by calling yourself that.

If you really can't think of something else, let me know. I've got some good suggestions!