Why sometimes I incline to Atheism and how I rationalize myself out of it.

[Cyberman]

I don't think it's a useless God. Perhaps it with it's immense knowledge and wisdom, knows the natural laws would be enough to create life all over the universe.

Of course it's useless. If it's bound by natural physical laws and incapable of doing anything that would not otherwise occur in nature, then it has no role as a god.

This also doesn't take away his role in constantly causing existence to exist, just not playing intervention role. Also life after death etc, all can happen, but this universe with diverse life has it's wisdom in which it would be governed by natural laws.

Firslty, what makes you think this god takes the masculine pronoun; and secondly, what makes you think this god is even there in the first place? Your whole argument is the equivalent of the famous dragon-repelling stones - clearly they must work, because there are no dragons around. You don't take into account the possibility that existence might just not need any intervention to keep causing it. Basically you're saying “how else could my feet stay on the ground if there isn't a disembodied spiritual mind keeping them there?“ You're adding a whole layer of mystery where there cannot be reasoned to be one. You need to demonstrate that there is a “there“ there, before we can even begin to entertain discussion about what it might be.

[*Deidre*]

Unfortunately, the problem lies with theism, not atheism. Theism is what causes all this confusion about life. The notion of 'evil vs good.' Bad things happen. Good things happen. We also can create a better world around us, too. The problem with theism is that it creates a construct of a 'god' swooping down to resolve everyone's woes, if only...everyone just prayed fervently enough. And when those needs go unmet, despite prayer? Well, that's God's will, too...is how theism chalks it up. God can never do wrong. Only mankind can. That's the basic construct, and dysfunctional paradigm most religions operate under.

So, to me, it is not that you need to rationalize yourself out of atheism. You need to start looking at theism with more of an objective mind. Not trying to change your mind, I'm just encouraging you to keep it open.

Atheism isn't the problem.

[paulpablo]

I don't think it's a useless God. Perhaps it with it's immense knowledge and wisdom, knows the natural laws would be enough to create life all over the universe. This also doesn't take away his role in constantly causing existence to exist, just not playing intervention role. Also life after death etc, all can happen, but this universe with diverse life has it's wisdom in which it would be governed by natural laws.

Sometimes you make very philosophical deep points and you seem to ponder the existence of God a lot which makes me think you do genuinely think about the subject.
But in other threads you have said you're becoming a Muslim again or words to that effect.
How do you go from being rational and philosophical about the existence of god, to believing that god definitely delivered a message to all of mankind via a book written in Arabic.
A book that claims if you don't believe the verses within the book God will burn you til you roast, then put more skin on you so he can burn you again.
A book that describes the creation of man as God saying the word "Be" To some dust then the dust turned into a man.
A book which contains localized Arabic idioms, obviously written by an Arabic person, and a full chapter of this book is dedicated to talking about how an uncle who Muhammad didn't like will be in hell. Does there need to be anymore indicators that Muhammad made it up himself? Why would the creator of the universe give one final message to mankind in the form of a book and a full chapter of it is dedicated to a family grievance of the messenger?
It would be like the queen of England doing the Christmas dinner speech to the UK and dedicating a paragraph of the speech to talking about the cameramans family troubles, why would God care about Muhammad's uncle?

[Chard]

Well I can think of a far more creative way of going about the universe than its current state. You know the old saying, "Anything god can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than god." Most likely because we for the most part ignore our religious texts which vary in age depending on the laziness of the translator (more lazy = less immoral only in this case).

The immediate problem I see is that there is not enough landscape. The universe is full of dead, empty, cold space that could've been filled by a more creative power. And should you try to touch that space you'll get your insides sucked right outta ya. Now we have been able to reach space using human ingenuity in conjunction with algebra and algorithms -- both of these words begin with "al," and end with Imam Hamid al-Ghazali, a particularly bad individual who didn't like his science.

To get on the ridicule religion bandwagon would be similar to getting off the hating humans bandwagon. I encourage all to give it a try.

[Cyberman]

And should you try to touch that space you'll get your insides sucked right outta ya.

Well, not literally. But that's just a minor nitpick which doesn't detract from your main and well-made points. My inner pedant was pestering me, that's all.

[Chard]

Thanks actually Stimbo. I do consider evil as stemming from three main points: intentionally lying, spreading bad rumors, and not fact checking. I did kind of feel a twinge when I wrote that part.

[Cyberman]

I know what you mean - if only more people thought to check facts before releasing them into the wild. What happens to the unprotected human body in space is actually quite fascinating. If you can manage to avoid your lungs bursting - caused by inhaling before stepping into space - and somehow didn't asphyxiate, your biggest danger (assuming you're anywhere near a star) is actually sunburn.

[RobbyPants]

Sometimes I think about the problem of evil and it makes me really question things.

I never lose belief in God but it does make me think.

I thought you were a deist. I thought the whole thing behind deism is rejecting any religious authority and a belief in a god, but not religion. So you'd have no sacred texts to assert that God is all-good and no reason to believe it. How would that belief system even have a problem of evil? If you get rid of omnibenevolence or omniscience, you have no problem of evil.

You have to assume God is all-loving. On what basis are you making that assumption?

When I finally admitted to myself I was an atheist, the relief that ensued was immense.

Yeah, I think I got to the point where I flat-out knew I didn't believe... and it still took me six months to get to the point where I could admit it to myself. It was a huge relief.

[Mystic]

Sometimes I think about the problem of evil and it makes me really question things.

I never lose belief in God but it does make me think.

I thought you were a deist. I thought the whole thing behind deism is rejecting any religious authority and a belief in a god, but not religion. So you'd have no sacred texts to assert that God is all-good and no reason to believe it. How would that belief system even have a problem of evil? If you get rid of omnibenevolence or omniscience, you have no problem of evil.


You have to assume God is all-loving. On what basis are you making that assumption?

I don't believe in a Creator due to science or a philosophical argument, I believe more so on emotional/spiritual/mystical reasons. In that belief, I do believe in traits like love and wisdom. Besides, without a good will intention, there doesn't really seem like to be a reason for the creation of the universe.

[Rampant.A.I.]

I thought you were a deist. I thought the whole thing behind deism is rejecting any religious authority and a belief in a god, but not religion. So you'd have no sacred texts to assert that God is all-good and no reason to believe it. How would that belief system even have a problem of evil? If you get rid of omnibenevolence or omniscience, you have no problem of evil.


You have to assume God is all-loving. On what basis are you making that assumption?

I don't believe in a Creator due to science or a philosophical argument, I believe more so on emotional/spiritual/mystical reasons. In that belief, I do believe in traits like love and wisdom. Besides, without a good will intention, there doesn't really seem like to be a reason for the creation of the universe.

Suffering can only increase by an omnibenevolent, perfect being creating a universe harmful to mortal life. So...

The ultimate torture chamber?