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June 17, 2014 at 10:22 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2014 at 10:31 am by Ksa.)
(June 17, 2014 at 10:06 am)muslimatheism Wrote:
(June 17, 2014 at 9:56 am)Ksa Wrote: This is correct, the correct word is planned or schemed, i think the arab word is Makara, but you can understand it wasn't a process rinsed in honesty. lol
Like, if I say, you went to a car race, and I schemed against you. It probably means I cut your break lines lol!
Then it is not facts and just an opinion, which it can mean many things . . not necessarily means "deceiving"; for example verse 2.9
Well, lets look at the word deceive:
___________________________________________________________ verb
gerund or present participle: deceiving
(of a person) cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage.
"I didn't intend to deceive people into thinking it was French champagne"
synonyms: swindle, defraud, cheat, trick, hoodwink, hoax, dupe, take in, mislead, delude, fool, outwit, lead on, inveigle, beguile, double-cross, gull;
___________________________________________________________
I believe the reason why the verb "deceive" is not used for Allah is because Allah need not draw personal advantage from anyone because he is all powerful and eternal. NOT because of the "cause (someone) to believe something that is not true" part.
So in verse 2.9, sure, humans can draw personal advantage, so they can deceive others, but not Allah because Allah need not draw personal advantage, so doesn't deceive, he can scheme. That means to scheme against: To plot, to conspire, but since conspiracy is only between two persons or more, the only relevant choice for words was to plot or to scheme, but it doesn't mean that it is honest behavior.
Answer me, if Allah went to tell the people he was scheming against "hey guys, tomorrow, I will scheme against you by doing this and that" would the scheme have worked? Yes or no? But naturally no! For the scheme to work, Allah must hide the truth from the ones he's scheming. Sure he draw no benefit from it, because he's all powerful and eternal, but that doesn't mean he baked cookies and gave them to kids! HE SCHEMED. That's EVIL.
June 17, 2014 at 10:26 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2014 at 10:29 am by Muslim Atheism.)
"Planned" can also mean taking "preventive" measures. . . and as equal to the principle of jurisprudence, ie. the justifications for punishment typically take five forms: (1) retributive; (2) deterrence; (3) preventive; (4) rehabilitative; and (5) restitutionary.
Therefore, what are the facts can you extract from the verse to prove that it is "deceiving" or "not a honest behavior"?
June 17, 2014 at 10:33 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2014 at 10:39 am by Ksa.)
(June 17, 2014 at 10:26 am)muslimatheism Wrote: "Planned" can also mean taking "preventive" measures. . . and as equal to the principle of jurisprudence, ie. the justifications for punishment typically take five forms: (1) retributive; (2) deterrence; (3) preventive; (4) rehabilitative; and (5) restitutionary.
Therefore, what are the facts can you extract from the verse to prove that it is "deceiving" or "not a honest behavior"?
Sure, you're a born winner and the best pilot there is. You will likely win the race, so, to prevent it I take preventive measures, by cutting your break lines, by loosening some tire screws.
It doesn't look any better man.
To answer your second part, brother asks how to tell if Allah was deceiving and not enforcing jurisprudence. The answer is found in Surat 'Āli `Imrān 3:54 which says:
"And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners."
Same word is used for Allah and the disbelievers, the word planned or schemed. So whatever the disbelievers were scheming, Allah did the same. Same word is used. So if Allah was applying jurisprudence, than the disbelievers also did that. Lol.
June 17, 2014 at 10:37 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2014 at 10:39 am by Muslim Atheism.)
(June 17, 2014 at 10:33 am)Ksa Wrote: Sure, you're a born winner and the best pilot there is. You will likely win the race, so, to prevent it I take preventive measures, by cutting your break lines, by loosening some tire screws.
It doesn't look any better man.
Why are you comparing it with racing ?
The issue of winning a race is not a "criminal action".
Killing someone, yes and raise the issue of social duty and "preventive" measures.
It is preventing crimes.
June 17, 2014 at 10:39 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2014 at 10:40 am by Ksa.)
(June 17, 2014 at 10:37 am)muslimatheism Wrote:
(June 17, 2014 at 10:33 am)Ksa Wrote: Sure, you're a born winner and the best pilot there is. You will likely win the race, so, to prevent it I take preventive measures, by cutting your break lines, by loosening some tire screws.
It doesn't look any better man.
Why are you comparing it with racing ?
The issue of winning a race is not a "criminal action".
Killing someone, yes and raise the issue of social duty and "preventive" measures.
It is preventing crimes.
To answer your second part, brother asks how to tell if Allah was deceiving and not enforcing jurisprudence. The answer is found in Surat 'Āli `Imrān 3:54 which says:
"And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners."
Same word is used for Allah and the disbelievers, the word planned or schemed. So whatever the disbelievers were scheming, Allah did the same. Same word is used. So if Allah was applying jurisprudence, than the disbelievers also did that. Lol.
(June 17, 2014 at 10:39 am)Ksa Wrote: Same word is used for Allah and the disbelievers, the word planned or schemed. So whatever the disbelievers were scheming, Allah did the same. Same word is used. So if Allah was applying jurisprudence, than the disbelievers also did that. Lol.
Who is committing the crimes, and who is preventing the crimes ?
(June 17, 2014 at 10:07 am)Losty Wrote: Equal- no
Unjust- yes
Then they have to do something with the penal code . . because I believe almost all penal code provide for the punishment of death sentence in cases of intentional homicide, and they believe it is just.
Countries that do not allow the death penalty
ALBANIA
ANDORRA
ANGOLA
ARGENTINA
ARMENIA
AUSTRALIA
AUSTRIA
AZERBAIJAN
BELGIUM
BHUTAN
BOLIVIA
BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA
BULGARIA
BURUNDI
CAMBODIA
CANADA
CAPE VERDE
COLOMBIA
COOK ISLANDS
COSTA RICA
COTE D'IVOIRE
CROATIA
CYPRUS
CZECH REPUBLIC
DENMARK
DJIBOUTI
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
ECUADOR
ESTONIA
FINLAND
FRANCE
GABON
GEORGIA
GERMANY
GREECE
GUINEA-BISSAU
HAITI
HOLY SEE
HONDURAS
HUNGARY
ICELAND
IRELAND
ITALY
KIRIBATI
KYRGYSTAN
LATVIA
LIECHTENSTEIN
LITHUANIA
LUXEMBOURG
MACEDONIA (former Yugoslav Republic)
MALTA
MARSHALL ISLANDS
MAURITIUS
MEXICO
MICRONESIA (Federated States)
MOLDOVA
MONACO
MONTENEGRO
MOZAMBIQUE
NAMIBIA
NEPAL
NETHERLANDS
NEW ZEALAND
NICARAGUA
NIUE
NORWAY
PALAU
PANAMA
PARAGUAY
PHILIPPINES
POLAND
PORTUGAL
ROMANIA
RWANDA
SAMOA
SAN MARINO
SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE
SENEGAL
SERBIA
SEYCHELLES
SLOVAKIA
SLOVENIA
SOLOMON ISLANDS
SOUTH AFRICA
SPAIN
SWEDEN
SWITZERLAND
TIMOR-LESTE
TOGO
TURKEY
TURKMENISTAN
TUVALU
UKRAINE
UNITED KINGDOM
URUGUAY
UZBEKISTAN
VANUATU
VENEZUELA http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/abolitio...-countries
In the US it's only a matter of time. It's been outlawed already in 18 states. Hopefully it will be completely outlawed here soon too.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay
0/10
Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
June 17, 2014 at 10:48 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2014 at 10:49 am by Muslim Atheism.)
(June 17, 2014 at 10:44 am)Losty Wrote:
(June 17, 2014 at 10:20 am)muslimatheism Wrote: Then they have to do something with the penal code . . because I believe almost all penal code provide for the punishment of death sentence in cases of intentional homicide, and they believe it is just.
Countries that do not allow the death penalty
ALBANIA
ANDORRA
ANGOLA
ARGENTINA
ARMENIA
AUSTRALIA
AUSTRIA
AZERBAIJAN
BELGIUM
BHUTAN
BOLIVIA
BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA
BULGARIA
BURUNDI
CAMBODIA
CANADA
CAPE VERDE
COLOMBIA
COOK ISLANDS
COSTA RICA
COTE D'IVOIRE
CROATIA
CYPRUS
CZECH REPUBLIC
DENMARK
DJIBOUTI
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
ECUADOR
ESTONIA
FINLAND
FRANCE
GABON
GEORGIA
GERMANY
GREECE
GUINEA-BISSAU
HAITI
HOLY SEE
HONDURAS
HUNGARY
ICELAND
IRELAND
ITALY
KIRIBATI
KYRGYSTAN
LATVIA
LIECHTENSTEIN
LITHUANIA
LUXEMBOURG
MACEDONIA (former Yugoslav Republic)
MALTA
MARSHALL ISLANDS
MAURITIUS
MEXICO
MICRONESIA (Federated States)
MOLDOVA
MONACO
MONTENEGRO
MOZAMBIQUE
NAMIBIA
NEPAL
NETHERLANDS
NEW ZEALAND
NICARAGUA
NIUE
NORWAY
PALAU
PANAMA
PARAGUAY
PHILIPPINES
POLAND
PORTUGAL
ROMANIA
RWANDA
SAMOA
SAN MARINO
SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE
SENEGAL
SERBIA
SEYCHELLES
SLOVAKIA
SLOVENIA
SOLOMON ISLANDS
SOUTH AFRICA
SPAIN
SWEDEN
SWITZERLAND
TIMOR-LESTE
TOGO
TURKEY
TURKMENISTAN
TUVALU
UKRAINE
UNITED KINGDOM
URUGUAY
UZBEKISTAN
VANUATU
VENEZUELA http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/abolitio...-countries
In the US it's only a matter of time. It's been outlawed already in 18 states. Hopefully it will be completely outlawed here soon too.
Out of almost 300 countries. . but I do agree with you , they should give other options (2.178-179).
June 17, 2014 at 10:50 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2014 at 10:57 am by Ksa.)
(June 17, 2014 at 10:42 am)muslimatheism Wrote:
(June 17, 2014 at 10:39 am)Ksa Wrote: Same word is used for Allah and the disbelievers, the word planned or schemed. So whatever the disbelievers were scheming, Allah did the same. Same word is used. So if Allah was applying jurisprudence, than the disbelievers also did that. Lol.
Who is committing the crimes, and who is preventing the crimes ?
Allah is the terrorist, he commits the crimes and the disbelievers are jurisprudential. They fight against evil and tyranny, like Boko Haram, Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein etc.
You got proof of the contrary?
OSHO said that a man who believes in something that is not of this world, is very dangerous. It is clearly mentioned in Surat Al-'Ikhlas 112:1-4 that Allah is not part of our world. I might as well invent a cookie monster and make a similar verse saying there's nothing like him. And if I get people to commit crimes in his name, my invention becomes terrorist number one. Allah!
Just noticed what you put as your label next to your avatar. It is possible to like traditions without literally believing in a god. It is possible to be a cultural or "secular" Jew or Christian as well.
But why? If any person coming from a Muslim or Jewish or Christian background says "I love the traditions, but don't buy the god" and also say "People outside my label can be good and do good as well".
Then maybe what should be more important than the tradition itself, is accepting that our ability to be compassionate or cruel is in US, in our evolution and not the tribes we cling to.
Human rights never grew by clinging to the past. It has only been when we challenged social norms that things got better for more people and pluralism and protection of dissent grew.
It is also why I warn atheists never to go around saying "If/or when we become the majority we will treat you better". NO, a mere label does not make any individual automatically good or bad.
I love Malala for her bravery in standing up against sexist bullies, but that does not make Allah a real god. I love Ann Frank's quote "In spite of everything I still believe humans are good at heart", but again, that as well does not make the Hebrew god real.
Traditions are only important in remembering as a point of history, but they must be subject to the same scrutiny that allows us to grow as a species.
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