No True Scotsman

[Lek]

It's common for non-believers to condemn christianity for atrocities committed or perceived to be committed in the name of christianity. They use this to assert that christianity is an evil force in the world. A christian is defined as one who follows Christ. Therefore I ask if a nation or individual is truly following the teachings of Jesus Christ would they have committed those atrocities?

[LostLocke]

What this comes down to is this.....

Basically, a person can be claimed by Christians as long as they are doing 'good' (in the eyes of Christianity). As long as they stay on this path, that person one of them.
But if at any point in their life that person commits some atrocity in the eyes of Christianity, it can be claimed he was never really a Christian to begin with.

This just creates a loophole in the 'rules'. Like a get-out-of-jail-free card for the rest of the 'true' Christians.

[Minimalist]

"All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested. O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion! Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a long time, have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honor. Behold! on this side will be the sorrowful and poor, on that, the rich; on this side, the enemies of the Lord, on that, his friends. Let those who go not put off the journey, but rent their lands and collect money for their expenses; and as soon as winter is over and spring comes, let hem eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide."

Pope Urban II - Clermont France - recorded by Fulcher of Chartres

So, the pope wasn't a 'true xtian?"

[Lek]

What this comes down to is this.....

Basically, a person can be claimed by Christians as long as they are doing 'good' (in the eyes of Christianity). As long as they stay on this path, that person one of them.
But if at any point in their life that person commits some atrocity in the eyes of Christianity, it can be claimed he was never really a Christian to begin with.

This just creates a loophole in the 'rules'. Like a get-out-of-jail-free card for the rest of the 'true' Christians.

The question is even though they are or claim to be christians, are they following Christ or they going against him? If they are going against Christ, then they are not following christianity.

[Bibliofagus]

Your jesus told slaves to respect and obey their masters. He never told these masters to set free the slaves. Would you follow his lead if you were living in a society where slavery was common? Maybe not. But people have done so in the past.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

As the bible in its entirety appears to be open to interpretation (unless you're a literalist, which I guess is also an interpretation) I think the point is that unless one of those interpretations can be proven to supersede the others no christian can be perceived to be a 'better' or 'truer' than any other. Good or bad.

Therefor I'd have to ask what interpretation of these teachings of Jesus you're referring to and whether they're accepted by all of Christendom regardless of sect?

[Lek]

"All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested. O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion! Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a long time, have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honor. Behold! on this side will be the sorrowful and poor, on that, the rich; on this side, the enemies of the Lord, on that, his friends. Let those who go not put off the journey, but rent their lands and collect money for their expenses; and as soon as winter is over and spring comes, let hem eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide."

Pope Urban II - Clermont France - recorded by Fulcher of Chartres

So, the pope wasn't a 'true xtian?"

What he said here definitely wasn't christian doctrine.

---

As the bible in its entirety appears to be open to interpretation (unless you're a literalist, which I guess is also an interpretation) I think the point is that unless one of those interpretations can be proven to supersede the others no christian can be perceived to be a 'better' or 'truer' than any other. Good or bad.

Therefor I'd have to ask what interpretation of these teachings of Jesus you're referring to and whether they're accepted by all of Christendom regardless of sect?

I think it's pretty clear that Jesus never urged us to commit atrocities.

[Chad32]

Since the bible is a collection of books, written centuries apart in some cases, you have widely varying accounts on what you are and aren't supposed to do. The best example is the old and new testaments. You could find passages somewhere in the book that agree with whatever you like, and disagree with whatever you don't like. That's why there are so many denominations, many saying they are the one true path.

It's impossible to say who is or isn't a "true" christian, because followers of the books can't decide what a "true" christian is. This doesn't even get into the other two Abrahamic religions, both of which worship the same god, yet have different views on how to follow him.

A lot of it seems to depend on what the current society thinks. Some people believe we should treat each other equally, and one Human should have as many rights as another. Yet christians often resist this, saying that women should be subservient to men, black people should be the property of white people, and homosexuals shouldn't be able to be with the people they love. Many would say equality is a good thing, but since it isn't good according to the book then we shouldn't do it?

It's been over 2000 years, and people are still arguing about what a true christian is. How about you guys figure that out first, unify into one religious group, and then try to tell non religious people what a true christian is. Deal?

[Bad Wolf]

No, but didn't he say 'slaves obey your masters'?

[downbeatplumb]

I think it's pretty clear that Jesus never urged us to commit atrocities.

Didn't actually say not to though.
And remember he could have a temper, kicking over money lenders stalls for one.