So I joined a Christian forum...

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I wish people would get the damn fairy tale correct. Just because you go to hell it's not that big of a deal. Your other options are the sea and death. All three are temporary. Everyone gets out on Judgment Day. And then it's off to the gaudy bejeweled golden cube called New Jerusalem or to the lake of fire.

Of course if you're a muslim you get get sent to hell or to paradise on Judgment Day. The difference between the Christian and Islamic hells is that in Christianity hell gets thrown into the lake of fire. In Islam bad people go to hell after Judgment Day and suffer like Christians think that they will suffer if they go to Christian hell. They got their fairy tales mixed up.

[ignoramus]

I was thinking about the YouTube video with Dawkins and Krauss which I watched the other day.
Krauss was saying that due to the strong privacy laws in the US, there's no issues with eg, doctors, etc believing in what they like (religious wise), as it is their own personal business and must be respected.

On the opposite end on the scale, and I've never bothered with it because I thought it was a bit of a novelty and a farce to start with, but as a young Greek Orthodox Xtian, I spent a bit of time as an Altar boy.
After the people had left on a Saturday early arvo, I would have to pickup used candles, clean up etc, I would go round the back and there is the priest with his 3 "disciples" (actually the 3 guys were his background singers), and you guessed it, they were playing cards! To me at that age, I didn't batter an eyelid as a lot of old Greeks like to do this in their pastime.

Just makes me wonder whether anyone on earth actually takes the bible literally or are just Christians because it pays better.

[ronedee]

I just don't quite understand this idea Christians have that indoctrination is a good thing (it protects their children's souls against the big bad Satan wolf!) because they must then too be totally okay with every non-Christian religion that indoctrinates children with opposing beliefs. You'd think if they thought their ideas were true, the open-mindedness they cultivated in themselves would serve as an example to others, which might increase the chances that those non-Christian faiths might become less fanatical, and ultimately make evangelism easier. But I suppose like everything in Christianity, it's a one way street. They get to make the rules and you get to follow them. End of discussion.

Also, what words were loaded? The one coherent response I got thus far took issue with "sickly" (which I used because another Christian in my original thread said children need "a doctor"... God) and "indoctrination." I don't get that one.

I can't explain Protestant Christian methods of "indoctrination" as you put it. But Catholics at least stress God's Love. Not His punishment. And it's much more uniform throughout. Just because we are more organized in our teachings.

The hardest thing to do as a Christian, is to teach our Faith. Bias, and personal opinion need to be removed from our teachings. It is sometimes better to just teach religion as a history lesson, and let the child make their decisions as they grow.

I have several children (no surprise, I'm Italian Catholic). All of my older kids, have left the faith. It was a concern especially to my wife (Irish) who home schooled them, including Catechism.... but I left the faith as an adolescent too. And I returned in my late 20's. She did a great job with them. Much better than I got from my cafeteria Catholic parents who sent me to parochial schools, which i promptly got tossed out of.... for being a "troublemaker". No surprise there either.... eh boyz?

So ultimately, I'm not very concerned. The kids were "indoctrinated" well. We only "forced" them to go to church, and pray with us until they were brave enough, and old enough to say no. After which, we would lectured each, and plead with them subtly. But we never "made" them do anything, or antagonized them at all. As disturbing as it was at times, we let them choose their direction.

And the results? None of them hate us, or the Catholic faith! Actually, they are very tolerant of our religious practices. LOL! That's probably making you scratch your heads and laugh right now! But we treat them as responsible adults.

We (my wife & I) look at it like this: We brought each one of our children up to be their own, thinking person. We also taught them "everything" we know about the Catholic faith. Both Good & Bad. And when they rebelled, we left them to their own decisions. And we are hoping all the time that our "indoctrination" was good enough, along with our constant prayers, and trust in God, that they will return to Him, as I did.

And of course, common sense says: "You catch more flies with honey, than ...... well .....fire & brimstone.

I can't say how things will pan out for all my kids. My oldest is 26. But, they are good kids. They instinctively help others, and are very kind, loving and considerate to us and each other. In my book, I can't ask for more. Whether they come back to God, or not? That's up to them, and Him.

We did our job. And, we keep praying.... and the "most important" job for a parent: being a good example! They usually turn out like the parents!

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Hi rondee, good story. I just wanted to ask why you'd think it was a surprise to us that your kids respect and tolerate your religious practices and your faith?

I think you'll find that most people on here (at least me) can easily live and let live with other people about their religions just so long as it doesn't affect me/ others who don't want to hear about it and be converted.

I also wanted to ask that, as a catholic, should your children not 'return to the church' as you did as a young man, where do you think they're going to end up, ultimately? Serious question with no provocation. Thanks.

[Mudhammam]

Wanna bet it's going to cause a shit storm and get deleted anyway?

8:5 against your post not being deleted.
6:7 against you getting banned in the next 72 hours.

Thread closed but not deleted.
All privileges, from posting to joining the chat room, to even PMing a mod, appear to be revoked. But I'm not banned.

No explanation given. Lol. Even my introduction thread, in which all I basically said was "hello," appears to have vanished.

See for yourselves a Christian example of fairness and tolerance:
http://www.worthychristianforums.com/top...ted-posts/

[Zen Badger]

8:5 against your post not being deleted.
6:7 against you getting banned in the next 72 hours.

Thread closed but not deleted.
All privileges, from posting to joining the chat room, to even PMing a mod, appear to be revoked. But I'm not banned.

No explanation given. Lol.

See for yourselves a Christian example of fairness and tolerance:
http://www.worthychristianforums.com/top...ted-posts/

You did better than me mate.

I joined that forum a couple of years ago.
My first post was basically" Hi, I'm an atheist looking for informed and intelligent discussion".
BAM! Banned on the spot without explanation.

[LastPoet]

Well, its their forums, their rules. You joined on your own volition.

[Mudhammam]

Well, its their forums, their rules. You joined on your own volition.

The point is people like myself getting banned (well, basically anyway), without breaking any rules, and receiving no explanation.

It's a small annoyance but I can't say I'm surprised. And truly it probably saved me time that otherwise would have been wasted

[Whateverist]

Honestly, I'm not at all surprised that they objected to the word "indoctrinated". It isn't that it isn't true. They just think of it as the good kind of indoctrination. Whereas you might prefer to raise a kid to be autonomous and questioning. They just think rule-following and humble is the way to go. (Of course I agree with you, but they don't.)

[Mudhammam]

Honestly, I'm not at all surprised that they objected to the word "indoctrinated". It isn't that it isn't true. They just think of it as the good kind of indoctrination. Whereas you might prefer to raise a kid to be autonomous and questioning. They just think rule-following and humble is the way to go. (Of course I agree with you, but they don't.)

Does indoctrination carry negative connotations to the Christian ear? I never knew that if it did. Clearly there are good forms of indoctrination and I did not come out and say that theirs was bad, merely that it was a question I thought worth discussing.