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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 8:08 am
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2014 at 8:08 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Christ is a pregnant word. You've given it a short shrift. "Followers of christ" could take paragraphs to explain by any other terms. The reason that atheists can;t be christians, is that atheists, by definition, don't believe in a "christ" - even if they might believe in a "jesus". It's a title, not a last name.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 8:12 am
(June 30, 2014 at 8:08 am)Rhythm Wrote: Christ is a pregnant word. You've given it a short shrift. "Followers of christ" could take paragraphs to explain by any other terms. The reason that atheists can;t be christians, is that atheists, by definition, don't believe in a "christ" - even if they might believe in a "jesus". It's a title, not a last name.
Yes, Christ is the Greek form of "Messiah". But depending on what one accepts and rejects from the Scripture, it could be argued that even an atheist could believe in a Messiah.
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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 8:13 am
(June 30, 2014 at 6:50 am)Irrational Wrote: Anyway, I think I should've added the question for former Christians:
Did you truly believe most people were going to hell?
I did. But most of the time I didn't behave as I did, because I was young and lived in the moment without thinking about consequences.
I think many Christians believe in Hell but don't believe they're going there because of the Get Out of Jail Free card they believe they get from confessing to Christ or the padre. I know that when I was conscious of my sins I desperately prayed for forgiveness and redemption (being Southern Baptist, that was the only real requirement, along with a promise to try better.)
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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 8:18 am
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2014 at 8:19 am by GrandizerII.)
(June 30, 2014 at 8:13 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: (June 30, 2014 at 6:50 am)Irrational Wrote: Anyway, I think I should've added the question for former Christians:
Did you truly believe most people were going to hell?
I did. But most of the time I didn't behave as I did, because I was young and lived in the moment without thinking about consequences.
Did you think much about hell during that time? How young were you?
Rhythm, you've probably heard of Christian atheists?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 8:22 am
(June 30, 2014 at 8:12 am)Irrational Wrote: Yes, Christ is the Greek form of "Messiah". But depending on what one accepts and rejects from the Scripture, it could be argued that even an atheist could believe in a Messiah. That's how the greeks used it back when it was coined sure - but it's accepted alot of baggage since then. I don't think it could actually be argued that an atheist could possibly believe in christ, unless we are willing to make the word "christ" mean everything and nothing all at once.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 8:31 am
(June 30, 2014 at 8:22 am)Rhythm Wrote: (June 30, 2014 at 8:12 am)Irrational Wrote: Yes, Christ is the Greek form of "Messiah". But depending on what one accepts and rejects from the Scripture, it could be argued that even an atheist could believe in a Messiah. That's how the greeks used it back when it was coined sure - but it's accepted alot of baggage since then. I don't think it could actually be argued that an atheist could possibly believe in christ, unless we are willing to make the word "christ" mean everything and nothing all at once.
So no true Scotsman? 
Check the link I posted in my last post.
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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 9:00 am
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2014 at 9:05 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I saw the link, I think it's an unfortunate and confusing name. Those guys are just as "christian" as I am. They self identify as such, so I don't have to make any assumptions (I just take it at face value). While I accept that they call themselves that, and while I understand their position - it does not strike me as a "christian" position in any way. The value of the teachings are independent of the value or truth of the jesus or christ character. The "christian" modifier means, effectively, nothing.
True scotsman can't really challenge something tautologically true. In every possible permutation of atheism - the atheist does not believe in a god. "Christ"....is a living god. "Jesus", is a hippy/sadist with a questionable book of fables. It would be difficult to remain consistent with the claim that I both believe, and do not believe in a god concurrently - that I am a christian atheist. I'm an atheist who was brought up with and consequently has values both taken from and simply concurrent to the christian tradition of ethics. Wouldn't that be more accurate?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 9:06 am
(June 30, 2014 at 7:34 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I wonder, if a person can simply pick and choose which words of Jesus they embrace and take literally--and clearly Jesus had some awful, idiotic views about unbelievers and hell-- then can I still claim to be a Christian while rejecting all the bullshit in the New Testament? (I'm down with the "blessed are the poor" and "love thy neighbor" and the general idea of redemption through suffering bits).
Cafeteriaism is clearly not endorsed by Jesus (or scripture), so how can a pick and choose christian (a FOLLOWER of Christ!!) possibly expect to ever see the pearly gates ??
And another problem with the pick and choose mind set, it seems every christian sect, church, denomination, franchise, branch, subsidiary, outlet, division, cult, location, unit, and affiliate picks and chooses a different set of edicts, dogma, strictures, commandments, rules, orders, requirements and suggestions and the result is total chaos.
Oh, wait a minute, that helps us out . . . . nevermind.
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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 9:06 am
(June 30, 2014 at 9:00 am)Rhythm Wrote: I saw the link, I think it's an unfortunate and confusing name. Those guys are just as "christian" as I am. They self identify as such, so I don't have to make any assumptions (I just take it at face value). While I accept that they call themselves that, and while I understand their position - it does not strike me as a "christian" position in any way. The value of the teachings are independent of the value or truth of the jesus or christ character.
True scotsman can't really challenge something tautologically true. In every possible permutation of atheism - the atheist does not believe in a god. "Christ"....is a living god. "Jesus", is a hippy/sadist with a questionable book of fables. It would be difficult to remain consistent with the claim that I both believe, and do not believe in a god concurrently.
It seems you're equating "Christ" to "God", but that's not necessarily the case, even today.
Would you consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be Christians? They believe in Christ but not as God.
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RE: Do Christians really believe most of us are going to hell?
June 30, 2014 at 9:18 am
As I have posted before, at least in my area, if being christian was illegal and I was on a jury, I'd find it DAMN hard to vote to convict anybody around here for it.
So, no, I don't consider JW's to be good christians, nor Mormons, and virtually all the rest. If a religious slacker (and that ne 99.9999% of all of them) is 49% or less a 'believer', that implies they are 51% or more ATHEIST, and they NEED to have their noses rubbed in it.
Vigorously.
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