Is Evolution a science or a faith?

[Tobie]

This has been said countless times before on this forum, but Atheism is not the belief that there is no god, it is the lack of belief in a god. There are some atheists who, on top of not believing in a god, claim no gods exist, but the majority (at least here) do not claim that.

Also, science does not claim everything came from nothing - the Big Bang theory in it's current form says the universe started as a singularity, which is absolutely the opposite of nothing, because it is everything, but condensed infinitesimally.

Maybe this has been said countless times before. However, the thing which no one has thought about is that the new Atheist has redefined the faith. They say faith is purely religious concept that is to believe in something without any evidence for the existence of that thing. However, new atheists are completely blinded to the fact that their whole worldview is in fact a faith and indeed not only that but perhaps even more importantly that science depends on faith. Every scientist believe that the entire universe is intelligible that is we can in part understand it by using our minds that we have to believe before we do science.

Physics is powerless to establish its faith in the reliability of human mind simply because you have to have that faith that the universe is intelligible before you could do any physics at all. So here is the very odd thing the new atheist are railing against faith when they needed to believe their own worldview as well as to do science.

Faith, in religious context, is defined as a strong belief in the tenets of a religion based on spiritual conviction rather than evidence. Atheists haven't redefined it as that, that is what the word has always meant.

Physics is in no way a faith! There is huge amounts of evidence that the universe is intelligible to some degree - otherwise, science wouldn't exist. If you could never understand what was happening at all, then there is no way you could come up with a theory to explain what you are seeing.

Also, there is no such thing as an "atheist worldview". No two atheists will agree on everything beyond that they both do not believe a god exists.

[Jenny A]

I don't think it is a good mental health practice to fantasize that you know the infinite thoughts of imaginary entities.― Stefan Molyneux

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. --Richard Dawkins

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Einstein, Albert (1930). "Religion and Science" New York Times Magazine (Nov. 9): 1-4.

You're refuting my signature quotes? Really? Really?

I don't know what you think whether Einstein believed in god has to do with whether it's a good idea to think you know god's thoughts or whether you believe in all the possible gods, but Einstein did not believe in god, at least not in the way you are suggesting. Certainly whether he did has nothing to with evolution or whether atheism is a faith.

But you are so wildly mistaken about what Einstein believed that I find it necessary to quote him:

It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

Albert Einstein Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930 ---same article as yours.

Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being.

Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if scientists pray; quoted in: Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffmann

During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world.

Albert Einstein, quoted in: 2000 Years of Disbelief, James Haught

He was a rather more complex thinker than you are. He did not go looking for god as an expatiation. He found god in the awe of what he discovered, not by miracle or personal revelation.

From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.

Albert Einstein

[Cyberman]

[Thumpalumpacus]

Wait, another theist trying to claim the aura of scientific respectibility by enlisting ole Al even as they denigrate science? Will wonders never cease?

[Lemonvariable72]

[Esquilax]

Okay Harris, If evolution is false like you claim then please explain the results of this article. http://cdn.viewmixed.com/wp-content/uplo...2169-8.jpg

Prediction: out of hand dismissal as "not science," possibly referring to your link as a "junkyard."

Quiz him on the details once- if- he responds. If he knows them at all, you'll be surprised at how deeply he's misunderstood them.

[Lemonvariable72]

Okay Harris, If evolution is false like you claim then please explain the results of this article. http://cdn.viewmixed.com/wp-content/uplo...2169-8.jpg

Prediction: out of hand dismissal as "not science," possibly referring to your link as a "junkyard."

Quiz him on the details once- if- he responds. If he knows them at all, you'll be surprised at how deeply he's misunderstood them.

Knowing this guys record, I will be dumbfounded if he even responds.

[FreeTony]

This whole ludicrous attempt to lump science as faith can be summed up by:

1. I'm going flying in a commercial jet later today. I have faith that it will fly and I will not die.

2. I'm going to jump off a tower later today. I have faith that I can fly by flapping my arms and I will not die.



If you think these two "faiths" are the same, then you really shouldn't be allowed out in public, even if your preacher tells you that with faith you can achieve anything.

[Whateverist]

So has Harris left the house? Off somewhere quote mining for future use? Ah well.

[pocaracas]