Confessions

[emjay]

I'm sorry if you feel more oppressed IRL

It is not that I feel oppressed in real life so much as finding people in real life who can accept me as I am without contemporary judgment clouding their preconceive notions of how a person should behave.

Well I would... if I met you in real life No matter how much of a maverick you are, if you are I'd love to do the gay scene with you

[Arkilogue]

I imagine it works very much the same way with less complex life forms with no "self" consciousness needed. The physiological "environmental" consciousness of the body itself squirts out reactive hormones due to external stimuli. Like if you just see a tiger stick it's head out of the bushes 20 ft and it locks eyes with you...your body is going to flood with adrenaline and cortisol.

I'd imagine what ever kind of electric feedback mechanism that serves as their rudimentary consciousness gets swept up in similar, fight or flight hormone storms just as surely as we do.

Yeah, that's the problem - it would make just as much sense for it to be a purely physiological/reflexive response so no indicator of the presence or absence of consciousness. So again, perhaps best to just assume consciousness in all animals even if it could never be disproven.

I'm saying the chems would affect their consciousness in the exact same manner as us in that the body is chemically screaming to the action issuing electric mind "OMFG! WTF is that! You need do something about it immediately!"

There's no need for a conscious conception of "self" by the simple organism, but that doesn't mean there is no experiential consciousness there. I imagine it occupies a rudimentary range between "OHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT!!!" and "...nah, I'm good" *munchmunchmunch* with occasional spikes of "hey there you sexy thang!"

[Silver]

I'm saying the chems would affect their consciousness in the exact same manner as us in that the body is chemically screaming to the action issuing electric mind "OMFG! WTF is that! You need do something about it immediately!"

There's no need for a conscious conception of "self" by the simple organism, but that doesn't mean there is no experiential consciousness there.  I imagine it occupies a rudimentary range between "OHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT!!!" and "...nah, I'm good" *munchmunchmunch* with occasional spikes of "hey there you sexy thang!"

Nice word salad there, I'm going to add Italian dressing to it.

[emjay]

Yeah, that's the problem - it would make just as much sense for it to be a purely physiological/reflexive response so no indicator of the presence or absence of consciousness. So again, perhaps best to just assume consciousness in all animals even if it could never be disproven.

I'm saying the chems would affect their consciousness in the exact same manner as us in that the body is chemically screaming to the action issuing electric mind "OMFG! WTF is that! You need do something about it immediately!"

There's no need for a conscious conception of "self" by the simple organism, but that doesn't mean there is no experiential consciousness there. I imagine it occupies a rudimentary range between "OHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT!!!" and "...nah, I'm good" *munchmunchmunch* with occasional spikes of "hey there you sexy thang!"

Ah right, I see. Consciousness but not self-consciousness. In which case pain is probably still pain (as in unpleasant) even if the animal can't reflect on it. The question being basically if there is phenomenal consciousness of any type... if there is phenomenal pain... then that's something to always aim to reduce in the world. As a rough aside it I hate that we as humans always apply the 'prime directive' to nature as a whole... ie not interfere... when there's so much suffering out there in the brutal natural world... with civilisation we escape the general predator vs prey nature of the world and I know there's no real way we could interfere on a large scale but nonetheless if we assume consciousness in all animals, it sucks to have to sit by and do nothing with so much animal on animal suffering in nature

[Arkilogue]

I'm saying the chems would affect their consciousness in the exact same manner as us in that the body is chemically screaming to the action issuing electric mind "OMFG! WTF is that! You need do something about it immediately!"

There's no need for a conscious conception of "self" by the simple organism, but that doesn't mean there is no experiential consciousness there.  I imagine it occupies a rudimentary range between "OHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT!!!" and "...nah, I'm good" *munchmunchmunch* with occasional spikes of "hey there you sexy thang!"

Nice word salad there, I'm going to add Italian dressing to it.

It's real simple: The muscled body of any mobile organism requires an electric locus that can receive stimulus, issue orders and operate the vehicle as a whole field. The decision making apparatus. That is an organisms "consciousness". It is directly influenced by chemical and electrical feedback from the body.

[emjay]

Anyhoo... night guys

[Excited Penguin]

I confess that I don't know what I'm doing most of the time.

My actions probably have consequences I'm not foreseeing in the moment.

I'm probably wrong about how I view myself and what I do. I'm probably very disconnected from reality most of the time.

I don't like to negate myself like that, however. It's just not who I am. It goes against my nature in every way.

I feel like I can't get through to people sometimes, and everything I do ends up being wrong no matter what.

I am very thankful that's not true with everyone, though. There are some people in my life who accept me for who I am and know that there's more to me than I probably let show, which is probably not the best side of me. Or maybe they just hope there's more to me than that. I do think they're right, of course I do, I know myself better than anyone else. I know I'm good. I know I want to be good. But how do I reconcile that with how some people think of me?

End of complaining

[Arkilogue]

I'm saying the chems would affect their consciousness in the exact same manner as us in that the body is chemically screaming to the action issuing electric mind "OMFG! WTF is that! You need do something about it immediately!"

There's no need for a conscious conception of "self" by the simple organism, but that doesn't mean there is no experiential consciousness there.  I imagine it occupies a rudimentary range between "OHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT!!!" and "...nah, I'm good" *munchmunchmunch* with occasional spikes of "hey there you sexy thang!"

Ah right, I see. Consciousness but not self-consciousness. In which case pain is probably still pain (as in unpleasant) even if the animal can't reflect on it. The question being basically if there is phenomenal consciousness of any type... if there is phenomenal pain... then that's something to always aim to reduce in the world. As a rough aside it I hate that we as humans always apply the 'prime directive' to nature as a whole... ie not interfere... when there's so much suffering out there in the brutal natural world... with civilisation we escape the general predator vs prey nature of the world and I know there's no real way we could interfere on a large scale but nonetheless if we assume consciousness in all animals, it sucks to have to sit by and do nothing with so much animal on animal suffering in nature

Yes!

@Maelstrom: See? It's not that hard.

I think the first best thing we can do for the natural environment is to stop destroying it. Then we can have a conversation about how to work it more harmoniously together.

[Crossless2.0]

Bunny  Ranch?

A brothel in Nevada, according to Google.

Yep, I was a bartender there for four years.

Stories for the grandchildren someday . . . . 

[Catholic_Lady]

A brothel in Nevada, according to Google.

Yep, I was a bartender there for four years.

Stories for the grandchildren someday . . . . 

So would they go in there and ask the prostitutes to put diapers on and to act like a baby, or to be their "mommy?"