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Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
#1
Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
The original post is in quotes, and my reply is below each quote.

Quote:When I think of any issue of morality, I think of it in a relational way. For example, last year I had a roommate who argued sex with multiple partners is completely healthy according to scientific findings. After two years with your married partner, sex just goes downhill. It's perfectly fine, he said. The idea that premarital sex is wrong, according to him, is outdated. If he were a painter painting his view of morality here, he would have painted himself and his partners--with no other context or background. Better to consider the whole, I think.

He's not wrong to think that there is a benefit to sexual experience, as sexual inexperience due to our society's sex-negativity and refusal to properly educate teens on safe sex often leads to a dissolution of marriages due to lack of chemistry. I'm not sure if he meant that it's OK to cheat on your married spouse (wrong because you made a promise to be with that person forever and now you're breaking it) or OK to cheat on your girlfriend (less wrong, but still wrong). I would hope he meant serial monogamy but I could be wrong.

Quote:So the problem for me is that most people flaunt their ability to attract the opposite sex--especially when they are younger. Consider Facebook as an example. Young teenage girls and boys boast about their sexual exploits on their newsfeed. Well, at least I have seen it a lot. Don't just consider the two people in the relationship: What about others reading the newsfeed? They cause a lot of sadness for those not able to attract physically attractive people of the opposite sex. Consider the anger in young teenage boys about not being able to attract the girls they desire, and then seeing some other guy describe his time with her. People sharing my former roommates view often don't think about the psychological harm they cause others outside of their relationship. A second issue is that, when you have multiple partners, you're more likely to think of them as tools for your own pleasure, and they are dispensable as soon as you perceive they stop pleasing you.

If you want to ban premarital sex for your members based on the belief that that is commanded by your God, that's fine. I can't and don't want to challenge that. But if you want to claim it's somehow indicative of a "permissive society" (as I've heard from many other people) with claims like the above, you need to provide proof. About 90% of Americans have had premarital sex at least once in their lifetimes. If treating someone like a tool for pleasure was a consistent outcome of premarital sex then this would be a widely-reported and well-studied problem. But it is not AS MUCH of a problem as people think, as this article makes clear in regards to popular perception of "hookup culture" (by the way, every generation thinks the future generations are "going downhill" if you will):

Is hookup culture overblown? - Salon.com

I maybe heard people boast of their sexual exploits once or twice in my entire career in middle or high school. I think that the problem isn't people having sex when they're teens. It's people having unsafe and uninformed sex with their only education coming from media and pornographic stereotypes catering to an extremely sexually repressed (not liberated by any stretch of the imagination otherwise people wouldn't turn to pornography or AshleyMadison so much). Besides, I (and most reasonable teens- contrary to popular belief not all teens are ruled by their hormones) never really hung out with the few people who would use women as sexual conquests, because I knew that if I was to have a girlfriend, it would be by being myself and not a jerk.

Quote:In reflection, I don't think allowing premarital sex and sex with multiple partners is the answer; it's the complete opposite of the other extreme in which no sex is preferable. Baha'u'llah's law causes the least psychological harm for the whole. Not only does it consider the whole, it also considers your own spiritual development by challenging people to not see one another as mere tools. Instead, in human relationships we should sharpen one another's development in virtues. See Aristotle's view on friendship, because this is how he defines true friendship. The same holds true for marriage.

That might be the ideal for marriage. But a homosexual or heterosexual couple may have that in a sexual relationship or marriage. Marriage isn't a magic spell that somehow makes all instances sex perfectly OK or not selfish in any way. All marriage really is (in the eyes of the law anyway) is a formalized legal commitment as love is not necessarily involved. The idea that it is a seal of approval from God leads to people in religiously conservative areas marrying just to have legitimated sex before their hormones make them explode.
Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?

Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.
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#2
RE: Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
Societies that have gotten rid of the stigma of premarital sex are the same that have better woman's education, that have stricter laws on rape, where the standard of living is better for everybody. I think that it's not all a coincidence. A ban on premarital sex causes the oppression of women and also an excess of angry young men in society with nothing to do.
[Image: dcep7c.jpg]
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#3
RE: Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
Anytime a subject is treated as taboo whatever misconceptions or idiocy was present at the time of prohibition tends to stick around until such time as people feel that they can even discuss that-which-should-not-be-named.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#4
RE: Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
premarital sex is a biological necessity nowadays, let's just get over it
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#5
RE: Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
(July 20, 2014 at 8:13 pm)Blackout Wrote: premarital sex is a biological necessity nowadays, let's just get over it

It is, but not neccesarily with someone else.
Why do men need to rape when they can wash their hands of it!
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#6
RE: Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
I was always afraid of getting an STD. The idea of getting an incurable disease if I had sex with anyone who wasn't a virgin scared me more than it did practically anyone else I knew. You were just supposed to wait until marriage, and that was that.

Of course I heard songs and stories of all kinds about people cheating on their spouse because of sex, and I never connected the dots. Knowing if you're sexually compatable with someone is as important, if not more important, than any other part of the marriage decision. Not that I think a lifelong monogamous marriage is really the best thing anyway.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

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#7
RE: Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
Most folks get their stds from their spouse (or committed partner) iirc...lol. Mommy kept warning you about the clap, because daddy gave it to her. Angel
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#8
RE: Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
I've never understood the "no sex before marriage" edict. I listen to music before I buy it. Watch movies before I buy them. Test drive a car before I buy one. Why the fuck wouldn't I have sex before making that type of commitment? For fucks sake, I think people should not only fuck before they're married, they should do it a lot, with a lot of others. Same for living together. This is a must before marriage. There is no better way to figure out the things your significant other will do to piss you off than to live with 'em. Dirty socks on the floor, toilet seat up or down, toothpaste tube squeezed in the middle, dildos left on the coffee table, whatever... These are the things you learn from living together. Trust me, unless he/she's dropping a hint, you're never gonna see those dildos on the coffee table while you're just dating. He/she's still trying to impress.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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#9
RE: Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
(July 20, 2014 at 10:37 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: I've never understood the "no sex before marriage" edict. I listen to music before I buy it. Watch movies before I buy them. Test drive a car before I buy one. Why the fuck wouldn't I have sex before making that type of commitment? For fucks sake, I think people should not only fuck before they're married, they should do it a lot, with a lot of others. Same for living together. This is a must before marriage. There is no better way to figure out the things your significant other will do to piss you off than to live with 'em. Dirty socks on the floor, toilet seat up or down, toothpaste tube squeezed in the middle, dildos left on the coffee table, whatever... These are the things you learn from living together. Trust me, unless he/she's dropping a hint, you're never gonna see those dildos on the coffee table while you're just dating. He/she's still trying to impress.

That's against the whole sanctity of marriage thing according to religious people, sex is procreation bla bla bla - If it's just for procreation why does it feel good? Yeah right god works in mysterious ways...

If someone wants to wait until marriage because they prefer doing so, my take is to let them do it, and if pre marital sex is indeed a sin (what's the passage?) I'm already doomed to hell for it, and masturbation, I'll probably be locked down in the deepest most painful place of hell and get a fucking medal from satan
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#10
RE: Discussion w/ a Theist RE: Premarital Sex
(July 20, 2014 at 10:54 pm)Blackout Wrote:
(July 20, 2014 at 10:37 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: I've never understood the "no sex before marriage" edict. I listen to music before I buy it. Watch movies before I buy them. Test drive a car before I buy one. Why the fuck wouldn't I have sex before making that type of commitment? For fucks sake, I think people should not only fuck before they're married, they should do it a lot, with a lot of others. Same for living together. This is a must before marriage. There is no better way to figure out the things your significant other will do to piss you off than to live with 'em. Dirty socks on the floor, toilet seat up or down, toothpaste tube squeezed in the middle, dildos left on the coffee table, whatever... These are the things you learn from living together. Trust me, unless he/she's dropping a hint, you're never gonna see those dildos on the coffee table while you're just dating. He/she's still trying to impress.

That's against the whole sanctity of marriage thing according to religious people, sex is procreation bla bla bla - If it's just for procreation why does it feel good? Yeah right god works in mysterious ways...

If someone wants to wait until marriage because they prefer doing so, my take is to let them do it, and if pre marital sex is indeed a sin (what's the passage?) I'm already doomed to hell for it, and masturbation, I'll probably be locked down in the deepest most painful place of hell and get a fucking medal from satan

If you're down that way, say Hi to all the bishops, cardinals, ministers and Jimmy for me....
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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