Should the European Union end?

[Napoléon]

What's the best option? - Complete federalism, keeping the EU as it is with it's current characteristics or abolishing it completely?

There's more options than this. Why can't we have genuine reform in the EU but without it being complete federalism or the same flawed system as it is now?

[ignoramus]

Agree, but I cannot see it any better while each state governs their own finances.
Half will always support the other half.

[Dystopia]

What's the best option? - Complete federalism, keeping the EU as it is with it's current characteristics or abolishing it completely?

There's more options than this. Why can't we have genuine reform in the EU but without it being complete federalism or the same flawed system as it is now?

That is more or less the middle option, we could reform, but the main idea always was federalism from the beggining

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Why the fuck does a European get carte blanche and I, as an American, have to justify my opinion based on a superficial understanding of the EU's composition? I despise the idea of American exceptionalism; however, I will not be satisfied with a seat at the kid's table. I get it. You hate everything U.S. until you need the bulldog to clean up your mess.

The world hates us so much that they will tell us so while wearing blue jeans and eating our exported fast food. There's not a self described democracy on the face of the plantet that doesn't ultimately rely on the U.S. for protection. It must suck balls to call a group of people a bunch of dumb cunts that you rely on for security.

If it's any consolation, it sucks worse to constantly protect those that wrongly assume you're a dumb cunt. I say it's high time that we pull back and let others protect themselves. Should be easy now that all the heavy lifting is done.

Hold your horses, I never intented to say the US sucks, I never said that on AF, I only criticized the US when it comes to freedom of religion, and that's something even Americans do.

[Napoléon]

That is more or less the middle option, we could reform, but the main idea always was federalism from the beggining

Reform wouldn't be "keeping the EU as it is with it's current characteristics" would it?

[Dystopia]

That is more or less the middle option, we could reform, but the main idea always was federalism from the beggining

Reform wouldn't be "keeping the EU as it is with it's current characteristics" would it?

No. It would be abolishing it. Why? I propose abolishing the EU with political connotation, sovereignty would return to States, but economic union would be kept, we would keep the € (the british would keep the £) and open borders. Decisions would be made only with unanimity and not with the majority dictating the rules. Sounds a lot better and we get to keep benefits.

The thing is I don't see a reform unless we're talking about federalism, Brussels will continue to increase it's power over member States. The only option is to reform, but to reform we have to abolish the EU with a political bias and return to the open market solely

[Anomalocaris]

I pick federalism. Ultimately it is federalism or irrelevance. Traditional separate European states will be too small economically, militarily and politically, and will have no place in any top table of world assemblies by 2050. I think a centralized government with its own military force and population of at least 150 million and a developed economy will be the minimum for anyone who is anyone to take notice.

[Dystopia]

I pick federalism. Ultimately it is federalism or irrelevance. Traditional separate European states will be too small economically, militarily and politically, and will have no place in any top table of world assemblies by 2050. I think a centralized government with its own military force and population of at least 150 million and a developed economy will be the minimum for anyone who is anyone to take notice.

Federalism won't happen. If Brussles tried to go openly for federalism there would be revolutions in all member States. I don't think it is wise to join 28 States who speak different languages, have different cultures, and have been at war during history. Some States hate others, for instance the greek dislike the germans

People were most times not asked if they wanted to be a part of the EU, and most don't want federalism.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Put the Swiss in charge of everything. Problem solved.

Boru

[vorlon13]

How much 'overhead' does Europe need to spend on governance ??

I'd think if everyone considered 'bang for the buck' they'd all be in favor of 80% of the governance at 20% of the price.

[Anomalocaris]

I pick federalism. Ultimately it is federalism or irrelevance. Traditional separate European states will be too small economically, militarily and politically, and will have no place in any top table of world assemblies by 2050. I think a centralized government with its own military force and population of at least 150 million and a developed economy will be the minimum for anyone who is anyone to take notice.

Federalism won't happen. If Brussles tried to go openly for federalism there would be revolutions in all member States. I don't think it is wise to join 28 States who speak different languages, have different cultures, and have been at war during history. Some States hate others, for instance the greek dislike the germans

People were most times not asked if they wanted to be a part of the EU, and most don't want federalism.

They don't want federalism because the choice between federalism on the one hand, and irrelevance and powerlessness on the other have not yet become as stark as they would eventually be, say around 2050.

It's not just irrelevance, which smaller European states like Greece might think it not too different from what they were use to. It is also what stronger states with ambition for continued influence in world events might do to retain that influence in the absence of an centralized EU to act on their behalf. For example If a federalized Europe is not available for Germany to use as a it's voice in the international arena, I think Germany would likely form a coalition with Russia. This would likely be much worse for most of the lesser Eastern European than stronger federalism from Brussels.