The ethics if factory farming

[Jackalope]

That was a good movie. I need to watch it again. I wonder if it's on Netflix.

It was a good movie - in 1979. I watched it recently, it hasn't aged well. If you can look past the acting and cinematics, the story's still good though.

[Mudhammam]

Intellectually, I find the conditions that animals in factory farms are forced to endure oftentimes morally despicable and obscene. Of course, I value human well-being over animals but not to the extent that the pleasure of eating meat justifies the manner in which these animals are bred, kept, and slaughtered. It almost compels me to seriously commit to vegetarianism...

But then, emotionally and physically, I fucking love meat, and when I tried vegetarianism it lasted for about a week.

[Cato]

That was a good movie. I need to watch it again. I wonder if it's on Netflix.

It was a good movie - in 1979. I watched it recently, it hasn't aged well. If you can look past the acting and cinematics, the story's still good though.

Agree. I usually cringe at the idea of remakes, but this may be worthy. As long as they don't fuck it up like they did Rollerball and The Wicker Man.

[Mudhammam]

It was a good movie - in 1979. I watched it recently, it hasn't aged well. If you can look past the acting and cinematics, the story's still good though.

Agree. I usually cringe at the idea of remakes, but this may be worthy. As long as they don't fuck it up like they did Rollerball and The Wicker Man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU

Classic.

[bennyboy]

@Benny
Yeah, Rogan I can handle - it's just Salatin that grinds my gears (never fails- I'll be right there along with him and then he'll say something utterly and irreconcilably stupid - like all of us, obviously)....lol, no worries, was just a request.

Yeah, somewhere in the middle, he started talking about the wonders of some goofy medical device that Rogan immediately looked up and found it was bullshit. Makes the guy look a little woo woo and immediately discredits him to a degree.

[James2014]

True, I could survive off of shellfish. I could not survive off a vegan diet, since my family has a history of diabetes and complex carbs are off the table and I have a fish allergy. I could conceivably live on a vegetarian diet if I supplemented it with dairy.

Who told you that a vegan diet is bad for people with diabetes, or a high risk of diabetes? It's red meat you want to be avoiding, and beans you want to be eating!

http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics...or-success

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/metaboli...sed-diets/

[Natachan]

The doctors who treat my family?

I've read the literature from those organizations, a few tend to scatter them around campus and in the library. Some of their pamphlets from the PCRM either contain bad science or outright lie about the nutritional value of meat.

Meanwhile webmd, American diabetes association, and the mayo clinic all agree that red meat properly prepared is good for you, and that processed and starchy carbs are death.

[Zack]

I don't buy meat from the store much anymore. I prefer to eat my own livestock since I know where it comes from and how it was raised. If I don't have it then I go in on a steer or hog with a neighbor. We take it to the local meat locker and have it slaughtered. I also have a deal with another neighbor for deer. I let him hunt a buck on my land for the trophy ( that's all he wants) and he gives me the meat. It's a nice trade in my opinion. Most of the vegetables and some of my fruit is grown here too. Not everyone can or wants to do this so I think factory farming is a benefit. The downside is I live in Indiana; factory farming and BigAg are king. This leads to really dirty lakes and rivers as regulations are quite relaxed. Some fun facts: Indiana has roughly 6x as many hogs as Iowa has people. Adams County has more than 6 million hens, while Jay county has 3 million. In total you have: 3.3 million hogs, 71,000 dairy cows, nearly 24,000 beef cattle, 22.5 million egg-laying hens and 4.7 million broiler chickens just on factory farms. This may not sound like much but in a small state (38th in size) with a population of only 6.5 million people, the shit literally piles up before some asshole dumps it in a river or lake. The fines for these practices usually amount to about 5-10k dollars. Peanuts when you consider the profits. For shits and giggles another "ag-gag" bill has been introduced to the legislature making whistle blowing and/or video taping processing plants and farms a felony. These farms happen to be one of the reasons I don't drink the tap water. The artesian wells it comes from have a giant soybean field directly over top. While I do see the need for factory farms, there is a tremendous amount of room for improvement.

[bennyboy]

Meanwhile webmd, American diabetes association, and the mayo clinic all agree that red meat properly prepared is good for you, and that processed and starchy carbs are death.

I think the key word here is "processed," not "carbs" or "meat." In general, it seems pretty obvious that humans are omnivores, and that a balanced diet of various food-types, in a fairly natural form, should be most suitable to our digestive system.

I don't think vegans are really that big on processed foods-- in fact, I've met no vegan who says, "Yum, bleached white bread for breakfast." Usually, they are looking at whole-grains, fruits and vegetables-- pretty much aiming for the same kind of macro-nutrients that anyone else should eat, but maybe with trouble getting the calories for a "bulky" build if they want a lot of muscle.

[James2014]

The doctors who treat my family?

I've read the literature from those organizations, a few tend to scatter them around campus and in the library. Some of their pamphlets from the PCRM either contain bad science or outright lie about the nutritional value of meat.

Meanwhile webmd, American diabetes association, and the mayo clinic all agree that red meat properly prepared is good for you, and that processed and starchy carbs are death.

Show me some links from webmd, American diabetes association, and the mayo clinic that red meat is good for diabetes.

What bad science was in the links I provided? Red meat has been consistently found to be associated with increased risk of diabetes.

For example Pan et al showed by looking at 4,033,322 person-years of follow-up that substitutions of one serving of nuts, low-fat dairy, and whole grains per day for one serving of red meat per day were associated with a 16–35% lower risk of type II diabetes And again in their 2013 study that Compared with stable consumption, increasing intake of more than 0.50 servings per day within a 4-year period was associated with a 65% (pooled HR, 1.65; 95% CI, 1.48-1.84) elevated risk of developing T2DM in the subsequent 4-year interval among nonobese individuals.

Oh, but maybe its just the fat right? Well Montonen et al found that "elevated body iron stores below the levels observed in haemochromatosis are associated with higher risk of type 2 diabetes independently of established risk factors and a range of diabetes biomarkers". What cause high iron stores? Yep, red meat. Even lean red meat.

Vegans on the other have a approx. 70% reduced risk of T2 diabetes. Make of it what you will but I think you should go and talk to your doctor about what more recent evidence says regarding diet and diabetes, and you certainly should not be avoiding complex carbs like beans.