A new atheist's theories on meta-like physical existence

[freedeepthink]

I am interested in theories related to possible material civilizations evolving into beings with metaphysical (in our perception) abilities. Perhaps still being of the natural world; just not natural as we know it. Isn't that very likely considering the scope and complexity of the known universe and beyond?

Think pre-Big Bang; the Higgs-Boson multiverse. Think Kardashev's civilization scale and what might a highly advanced civilization do to entertain or stimulate their senses?

How interesting is an ant hill if you dig the tunnels for them? Who bothers to intervene on a moth's behalf when he is being extinguished in the spiders web?

If Kardashev is right, aren't we mere moths and spiders from the view of any galactic or multi universe perspective? Even if we elevate our importance to that of sharks and dolphins why would a higher being bother to intervene in nature.

I understand this is a purely speculative and depressing theory. However, at this stage in my understanding of the universe, it appears to be the most likely possibility.

This perspective should satisfy Epicurus's criticism of the traditional maximally metaphysical god. I guess what I am suggesting is a subset of deism. Please share you're thoughts and let me know if you agree with my line of reasoning.

I also considering the possibility that within the earth's 4.5 billion year history that earlier earth civilizations probably evolved on our planet before, but may have not have been able to escape earth's grasp and was extinguished through natural or technological forces. Of course, this lends the possibility that a prior civilization left this planet when the earth became uninhabitable. Natures recycling program start anew.

Personal note: Over the past 30+ years I have evolved from a evangelical Christian with a fundamentalist perspective to a seriously challenged Calvinist to an agnostic and finally to where I have been for the last 6 months as an atheist.

As a realist, I am interested in only truth and feel I am getting closer to it. I appreciate your help along that path.

I apologize in advance for not thoroughly analyzing the topic at hand. As a new atheist, I am hoping your critique and contribution to my reasoning can expedite my knowledge of the essence of life.

[Surgenator]

Do you have anything to support your hypotheses? If not, then this is just speculations at best, delusion at worst.

[The Grand Nudger]

I am interested in theories related to possible material civilizations evolving into beings with metaphysical (in our perception) abilities. Perhaps still being of the natural world; just not natural as we know it. Isn't that very likely considering the scope and complexity of the known universe and beyond?

The scope and complexity of the universe doesn't really have any bearing on that. But it's fun to wonder about - many great books have been written. I'll follow you down the rabbit hole.

Think pre-Big Bang; the Higgs-Boson multiverse. Think Kardashev's civilization scale and what might a highly advanced civilization do to entertain or stimulate their senses?

I can't, every portion of my thought process and all available points of reference or data upon which i can leverage that process are entirely dependent upon a "post" big bang universe. I can, if you'd like, extend all of this to a point where we have absolutely no reason to make any of these assumptions, a point which my process is meaningless, and opine about things as though any of it were even remotely reliable.

How interesting is an ant hill if you dig the tunnels for them? Who bothers to intervene on a moth's behalf when he is being extinguished in the spiders web?

Pretty interesting (lemme find you some youtubes of scientists doing just that in order to observe their response).

If Kardashev is right, aren't we mere moths and spiders from the view of any galactic or multi universe perspective? Even if we elevate our importance to that of sharks and dolphins why would a higher being bother to intervene in nature.

I don't know..I can only tell you why -we- would (and do) intervene.

I understand this is a purely speculative and depressing theory. However, at this stage in my understanding of the universe, it appears to be the most likely possibility.

I'm sorry, rephrase? What is the most likely possibility?

This perspective should satisfy Epicurus's criticism of the traditional maximally metaphysical god. I guess what I am suggesting is a subset of deism. Please share you're thoughts and let me know if you agree with my line of reasoning.

Ah, I see, so - as above, douchegod with no reason to care? That doesn't really satisfy epicuras so much as it confirms epicuras in the most complete fashion that I've ever personally been a party to.

I also considering the possibility that within the earth's 4.5 billion year history that earlier earth civilizations probably evolved on our planet before, but may have not have been able to escape earth's grasp and was extinguished through natural or technological forces. Of course, this lends the possibility that a prior civilization left this planet when the earth became uninhabitable. Natures recycling program start anew.

We can consider that possibility, lets see some evidence (meanwhile understand that we do have evidence that this is -not- the case)?

Personal note: Over the past 30+ years I have evolved from a evangelical Christian with a fundamentalist perspective to a seriously challenged Calvinist to an agnostic and finally to where I have been for the last 6 months as an atheist.

You still have some calvinism showing, above, in the douchegod scenario. But gratz on where you've been relative to where you are. Must have been rough?

[Angrboda]

[freedeepthink]

Do you have anything to support your hypotheses? If not, then this is just speculations at best, delusion at worst.

Of course, I acknowledge that this is speculation. I am assuming that speculation is fair game here. I am here to gather information related to this reasoning.

[Alex K]

Y U R high?

No, but seriously, I have often phantasized about the possibility of earlier intelligent civilsations having arisen on earth - what if some theropod dinosaurs had developed human like minds, but could not survive or spread because they never made it into the industrial age before they were wiped out. How large can a civilisation become to be undetectable after 80 million years?

Concerning that other stuff with the multiverse, that seems even more speculative. We don't know whether there is one, and it may be in principle impossible to access it. At least in our speculative physics models of that type, parallel universes would not easily lend themselves to be accessed by us. Can you specify a bit what you are thinking of?

[Chas]

I am interested in theories related to possible material civilizations evolving into beings with metaphysical (in our perception) abilities. Perhaps still being of the natural world; just not natural as we know it. Isn't that very likely considering the scope and complexity of the known universe and beyond?

No.

[vorlon13]

In view of the Fermi paradox, I'm thinking the advanced civilization might be us.

Really.


Or, if I am feeling generous, we're first.


Think of the galaxy as a large petri dish. The first civilization that develops the technology and has the motivation to colonize the galaxy will. And even without faster than light capabilities, the galaxy has been around long enough for that to have occurred >1000 times, and yet, they are NOT here.

Helluva thing to contemplate.

[freedeepthink]

Rhythm. Thanks for taking the time. I like where your'e going. First off, hilarious DOUCH-E-GOD description. The Calvinist God does appear to be predestined for douchness. I came to a point where, after questioning my evangelical beliefs that, if the biblical god were true, I couldn't support that system. I would go to hell before signing on to the idea of good people burning in eternal hell for not worshiping an egotisitical Deity. That is just sick. With that, I became much more open to abandoning the God-Myth.

Therefore, in my humble opinion, if there is a higher power of some sort, the "most likely possibility" is that there is not a true meta-physical entity, but simply one that naturally evolved via technology and/or genetically to a much greater degree than mankind.

Also, can we really discount a previous human civilization? There is evidence that there has been five mass extinctions with the worst occurring some 250 million years ago. That leaves a lot of time unaccounted for considering that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Human civilization sprung up even after those mass extinction events, which speaks to the resiliency of life itself. It is probably argued that DNA continued to evolve through these mass extinction events and that evolution of the human species was probably helped by these mass extinction events. the reason I say you can't disprove a prior civilation is because the evidence for such life could have been destroyed during the mass extension event, such as mass volcanic activity of a meteor.

I'll have to learn more about Epicurus as my understanding is admittedly elementary.

So, are we all alone? Are there beings who have reached the singularity (in the Kurzweil sense of the term) and now can control life itself? Kurweil's projections are lofty, but who could argue that a civilization 1000 years beyond ours couldn't control life? Once you can control life,, i.e. eternal life, aren't you God-like?

[Surgenator]

If there are aliens out there, I always thought they would avoid us. And not because of some prime-directive BS, but because our society is full of stupid people who are very loud.

I imagine an alien race first receive our tv radio waves which might be from WW2. They would say, "they're a young civilization, so by the time we reach them they will be better." As they travel closer, they would receive more recent transmissions maybe from the 60s-90s. They'll say, "you see they are getting better. A little wierd but at least there not killing each other as much." Then they receive reality TV. Thats when the aliens panic and say "they're regressing. Lets get the fuck out of here."