Thoughts on torrent sites

[ForumMember77]

I find it hard to believe that anyone would pay for what passes as "music" these days....and the movies generally suck, too.

Probably just me being an old fart.

It includes EVERYTHING software related, worth a pretty penny if you bought it.

Windows 7, 8, Microsoft office, excel, access.

There is also most old films/songs/tv shows you could think of, I have struggled to search for something that wasn't available ?

[Aractus]

Like the pirate bay ?

Love peer to peer.

Is it stealing to use the site for stuff you would otherwise have to pay for ?

Of course not. It's the same as taping a show onto VHS and then making a copy for a friend - it's peer to peer trading.

At the very worst it may be a form of copyright infringement, but it certainly isn't theft or "stealing".

Also, copyright legislation is in serious need of reform. Copyright was supposed to last 50 years, yet at the moment it is possible for copyrights to last for close to 200 years which is plain ridiculous. No one should be allowed to reap profit from a copyrighted work for longer than 50 years. No one needs to reap profits for 50 years.

Let's give an example - Michael Jackson died in 2009. So all his music will be copyrighted to his estate until 2084! What should happen is all the music he made should come out of copyright 50 years after the first publication date. So "Thriller" should come out of copyright in 2032, that's how copyright was originally conceived.

But what people are stealing isn't tangible, should that matter. Is policing such things more a kin to chasing thought criminals, the stuff they are downloading is nothing but information.

Governments that bow to pressure from lobby groups to police P2P are fascist.

[Minimalist]

Michael Jackson died in 2009. So all his music will be copyrighted to his estate until 2084! What should happen is all the music he made

Burn it?

[jesus_wept]

Is it stealing to use the site for stuff you would otherwise have to pay for ?

Simple answer is yes, obviously.

No, its copyright infringement.

Personally I think the whole argument is nonsense because the anti-piracy brigade always try to equate downloading with a loss of revenue but its simply not true. I've downloaded lots of music and films before but the simple fact is, had I not downloaded them, I still wouldn't have paid for the vast majority of the stuff. I'd either not watch or listen to it or I would borrow it off someone who had paid for it, watch it on TV etc.

[Dystopia]

People who use a pirated product are still promoting it - It will probably make the game more popular and sell more - People who can't afford won't buy, so you I'd rather let those people download the pirated version. I play lots of older games in my low end PC and they are all pirated versions, I don't feel guilty for it, most of those games are hard to find or have already sold a LOT

[Chas]

that person is not stealing the game exactly, but he is stealing the profits from me,

Only if I would have bought it in the first place. Otherwise there is no net loss.


I grew up at a time when reel to reel tape recorders were commonplace and everyone made recordings of songs that were broadcast on the radio.
Is that "piracy?"

No, that is "fair use". But selling that recording is illegal because that is theft of intellectual property.

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Is it stealing to use the site for stuff you would otherwise have to pay for ?

Simple answer is yes, obviously.

No, its copyright infringement.

Personally I think the whole argument is nonsense because the anti-piracy brigade always try to equate downloading with a loss of revenue but its simply not true. I've downloaded lots of music and films before but the simple fact is, had I not downloaded them, I still wouldn't have paid for the vast majority of the stuff. I'd either not watch or listen to it or I would borrow it off someone who had paid for it, watch it on TV etc.

The law says that is theft of intellectual property. So, there's that.

[jesus_wept]

The law says that is theft of intellectual property. So, there's that.

Which law?

[One Above All]

Piracy is stealing like making a copy of a famous painting is stealing.

The most often used argument is that revenue is being "lost". It's not. Most people don't have limitless funds at their disposal to buy every game for every platform in existence. Shocking, I know, but most people are not millionaires, or even what anyone would consider rich. When's the last time you heard someone say "This new game came out, but I can only run it at 59 fps. Gotta buy a new computer"?

Another argument is the one pointed out by Chas: "theft of intellectual property". This is also not the case. You're not claiming the game as your own. You're not selling it as your own. You just bought it and made copies. Going back to the comparison in the first line of my post: is making a copy of a famous painting "stealing"? If so, I bought stolen artwork in Holland, brought it home (I'm not just a thief; I'm an art trafficker!), and hung it on the walls of my bedroom. Better call the police.

[Napoléon]

While I agree with the premise, Napo, I think you've oversimplified things.

Not really. Theft is a whole other ball game to piracy. They're two different things. The concept of stealing something and leaving someone without the original purchased product is way different to creating multiple copies of the purchased product.

If I spend x number of hours programming a game, say, and I put it up for sale on a site like Amazon, say, and Joe Schmo comes and buys it, but puts it up on Pirate Bay, and Joe Blow comes and downloads the tracker, that person is not stealing the game exactly, but he is stealing the profits from me, as he would have had to pay for my game were it not for the torrent service.

This is exactly what all the anti-piracy campaigns would have you believe. That people pirating are causing companies to lose out on sales. The simple fact is, it's total bollocks. When the RIAA was trying to take down Limewire, they estimated that $75 trillion dollars was 'lost' as a direct result of people using the service. How can that be? There's not even $75 trillion dollars in circulation in the entire world. How on earth then, does this equate to lost sales? Answer? There are no lost sales. It's a total myth. You can't comment on whether or not someone would otherwise purchase a product just because he's pirated it. In fact, there's been a few studies to show that piracy in some instances actually aids sales. Minecraft has been one of the most pirated video games ever, yet even the guy who created it acknowledges it probably wouldn't have been as successful without people pirating it. I pirated Minecraft, I probably wouldn't of ever played it otherwise. But since I pirated it I've bought it both for PC and PS3. That's 2 sales they've got as a direct result of piracy.

So in essence, ironically, it isn't as black and white as you make it out to be either. Piracy isn't only negative.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2...not-theft/

Article on Minecraft's Notch if you're interested.

If I make a product, put it up for sale, and someone takes it without paying for it, I think that's stealing, no matter how big a company I work for.

Who's oversimplifying here? You? Or me?

Taking a product implies something is lost in the process. You're transferring it from one person's ownership to another. However, with piracy, there is no loss. The original product remains in tact and in the hands of the guy who originally bought it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting here touting the pro-piracy banner. I'm not going to ignore the fact that piracy in many cases is detrimental. But in many other cases it's not. And in general, it's far less of a 'crime' than people make it out to be. In fact, I really don't think it should be called a crime, but that's just my personal stance.

From a legal standpoint, ofcourse piracy is "stealing". But not all laws make sense, and they're always open to change. I'm not the only person who thinks the piracy laws in much of the world are retarded.

[Aoi Magi]

Well whenever you purchase a software or game, you are agreeing to how many users are allowed to use that copy as part of the license. When you make a copy of that, you are actually breaking the agreement.

Then again, personally I feel it's a bigger crime for the companies to re-release the same music with minor variations over and over and expecting me to pay for each one of those.

The only thing that really bothers me about whole p2p thing is stuff like paedophilia and such, but then again, I am sure those type of people will find other avenues even if we took down the entire internet.