Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 17, 2024, 4:44 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
#1
Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
Hi, atheist folks. I wonder if you can find flaws in the following argument. If it holds, it'll be part of a book.

I ask: Why is there something rather than nothing?

The question is befuddling. Why should there be nothing rather than what we have around us? Why privilege either "nothing" or "something"? Why cannot this world be everything that has ever been and will be?

On the one hand, we humans privilege nothing readily. We apparently come from nothing and go into nothing. In between we live for a little bit, always in danger, such that if we don't struggle with all our might, the nothing will arrive even quicker. All living things are born, thereby beginning to exist, and die, thereby ceasing to exist. But the inference from this human experience to the universe as a whole need not be taken.

Moreover, "something" is also privileged. The moment we are born, we are surrounded with stuff to use, enjoy, and manipulate. Disembodied existence, while not inconceivable, is not part of our human experience. But "nothingness" is inconceivable; one can't close his eyes and picture nothingness.

However, that nothingness is inconceivable does not mean that it is impossible.

Let possible world Empty be defined as follows: ForAll(X I can think of)[X does not exist in Empty]. Then

(1) Nothing = ThereExists[Empty]. We are dealing with "universes," uni = "one," so any possible world is a maximally consistent state of affairs. As a result, Empty swallows up every other reality, so it is not necessary to say "there exists only Empty."

Let our actual world be called Earth. Then

(2) Something = ThereExists[Earth].

Neither is privileged.

In this case, it does not matter that Earth may have existed forever and will continue to do so indefinitely. We are not looking for a physical cause prior in time to Earth. Moreover, once Earth exists, I grant that it may be forever imperishable. First, there are no "predators" outside it that may kill it. Second, material objects, though they can in the course of their lives change from one form into another and even into energy, nevertheless seem imperishable. We might say that they "follow the law" so faithfully that they are granted immortality. They fear disobedience so much as to persevere in being forever.

But we are seeking an explanation of why (1) is false and (2) is true.

For (2) is a contingent proposition. The question is not what, if anything, preceded Earth in time in the actual world, but why the non-necessary situation prevails. I admit that Earth may never have begun; suppose it always has existed, with time going into the past into actual infinity. I do not consider this either unintelligible or impossible.

We ask for an explanation why (2) which is contingent and certainly need not be true is in fact true. But to explain something is to reduce it to a cause. For example, say, Smith throws a stone which breaks a window. This, too, is a contingent event. We explain why the window was broken by implicating Smith, his actions, the stone, etc. If there is determinism, then we can extend our explanation backward in time forever.

We certainly do not explain why "2 + 2 = 4" is true, because it's a necessary truth, if there was one. If pressed, we say that it is true due to the logical and arithmetical structure of the human mind. The opposite is neither conceivable nor possible, because possible worlds are imagined by human minds, and their ideal content is unavoidably constrained by the structure of these minds.

I fully admit that the cause of (2)'s being true, call it C2, is different from the cause of the broken window, CB, because both CB and its effect, the breaking of the window, are situated in time, with cause preceding the effect; while (2), being an abstract proposition is in any case timeless; it cannot be said to exist either in the past, present, or future. Regardless, it must have some kind of cause.

This cause must have been presented with a choice to make either (1) or (2) true and chose (2). This choice of words does not imply anything regarding the type of causation, whether it was physical, teleological, or some other third type. Note that C2 could not be random, because any random selection still presupposes a mechanism or environment to generate randomness.

How then did C2 make (2) true? By joining Earth with existence, i.e., by creating Earth. As a result, (2)'s being true has a "cause," and Earth's existing has a "ground" of its existence. This ground is called God.

An obvious question that can be asked by an atheist at this point is: When was Earth's essence joined to its existence, given the assumption that Earth is everlasting, i.e., without beginning or end? In reply I suggest that God is eternal, defined as "simultaneously-whole and perfect possession of interminable life": for God, the 4 time periods are folded up, unified as if in a package and present themselves as single eternal moment of boiling divine life. Earth was united with its existence not at any moment in time but as a whole in eternity which "covers" merely everlasting existence.

This is only half the task. Now we ask: What is this God? It cannot be another real thing, for then it, too, would stand in need of its own ground. It must then be "beyond" being. The only non-thing that can conceivably fit that description is "goodness."

Goodness is not a thing but a kind of force, a primal principle that permeates all, that creates this world, so that its inhabitants might enjoy life or try to. That is what we mean when we say "God." Goodness is not a thing but Creator of things. As a result, in the beginning, there was a kind of clean slate, in which whatever is created (by goodness) could be made into a top-notch project or performance from ground up, with no need for backward compatibility.

Now if goodness reigned, then in the beginning (of our story), there could not be anything, because only goodness creates good things, and nothing can exist whose existence goodness has not authorized.

Our options are: (a) goodness + nothing in the beginning and (b) a good thing, i.e., the universe, in the beginning. Goodness implies "nothing," and "nothing" implies goodness; and now we see that their combination, i.e., (a), is also implied.
Reply
#2
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
(October 22, 2014 at 10:52 pm)datc Wrote: Let possible world Empty be defined as follows: ForAll(X I can think of)[X does not exist in Empty]. Then
. . . then cogito ergo ! ThereExists[Empty]

(October 22, 2014 at 10:52 pm)datc Wrote: The only non-thing that can conceivably fit that description is "goodness." Goodness is not a thing but a kind of force, a primal principle that permeates all, that creates this world, so that its inhabitants might enjoy life or try to. That is what we mean when we say "God."
Your heretical equivocations make baby Jesus cry. Nobody means that when they say "God," except for closet atheists (aka theologists) who want a definition that is so nebulous even a sensible, educated person might be able to accept it.
Reply
#3
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
That was a long walk around the block for Goddidit.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:

"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."

For context, this is the previous verse:

"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
Reply
#4
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
Empty universes are unstable (really) and decay into universes that are not empty.

It might take a while though, but for an empty universe, time passes VERY quickly.
Reply
#5
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
(October 22, 2014 at 11:24 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Empty universes are unstable (really) and decay into universes that are not empty.
Yes, I am familiar with this barbaric hypothesis by Victor Stenger.

Unfortunately, "instability" is a mere property and as such, must be attached to a real object. An empty universe, by definition, contains nothing, including space, so there is nothing of which "instability" might be predicated.

(October 22, 2014 at 11:01 pm)bennyboy Wrote: . . . then cogito ergo ! ThereExists[Empty]
The very phrase "there is nothing" is self-contradictory: how come existence ("there is") is postulated of "no thing"?

But we say that and know what we mean.

So, if "there is nothing" is meaningful, then so is "there is a possible world in which nothing exists." This world I call Empty and say "there is" it or ThereExists[Empty].

ThereExists[Empty] is a convenient short-hand for defining nothingness.

(October 22, 2014 at 11:01 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Nobody means that when they say "God," except for closet atheists (aka theologists) who want a definition that is so nebulous even a sensible, educated person might be able to accept it.
That God is good and that He created the world through outpouring or self-diffusion of His goodness is hardly a heresy.

My only innovation is to privilege goodness over being.
Reply
#6
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
What makes you think "God" is a he?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
Reply
#7
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
Silly, Genesis doesn't say there was nothing it says "When God began to create the heaven and earth, the earth being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and wind from God sweeping over the water." There was always God and deep water in a void.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god.  If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
Reply
#8
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
(October 23, 2014 at 12:07 am)Stimbo Wrote: What makes you think "God" is a he?
The male / female duality is everywhere in our world. The masculine aspect tends to be interpreted as one with power to act, actuality; whereas the feminine aspect, as passive, one that is acted on, potency, potentiality.

Nature is a "she"; the female archetype is both receptive and destructive in its various guises: e.g., if you do not take the opportunity to plant your crops in the summer when nature is pliable, the same nature will starve and kill you in the winter.

But Nature's God is pure act with no admixture of potency in it. Hence is it appropriate to refer to God as "he."

This, of course, is off-topic regarding my proof.

(October 23, 2014 at 12:15 am)Jenny A Wrote: Silly, Genesis doesn't say there was nothing it says "When God began to create the heaven and earth, the earth being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and wind from God sweeping over the water." There was always God and deep water in a void.
I have presented a philosophical proof. It is not revealed but natural theology.

At any rate, we read in the Catechism that "the 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil' symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust." (396) Symbolically evokes. Not necessarily (or even probably) literally describes a piece of actual human history.

Same with the passage you have quoted.

(October 22, 2014 at 11:20 pm)Exian Wrote: That was a long walk around the block for Goddidit.
That is unfair, because in the process of the argument, I unfold the attributes of God.

"Goddidit" is equivalent to the meaningless "Blargdidit."

But God is not a empty concept. I show in the OP that God is beyond being, good, and eternal. Those are not the only attributes of God, nor is the argument presented the only argument for God's existence.

But if you want to call God, "Blarg," it's all the same to me, as long as we ascribe the same meanings to both terms.
Reply
#9
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
OP, do you think what you've put to us is anything we haven't heard before?
Reply
#10
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
Why are some people so obsessed with attempting to find 'answers' to these 'life questions?'

We are here. That's just what it is. IT JUST IS.
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.

It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.

Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll


Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Everything, Something's or Nothing Lord Andreasson 28 1332 October 4, 2024 at 2:48 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Is CS a science or engineering, or maybe something else? FlatAssembler 90 8636 November 6, 2023 at 7:48 am
Last Post: FlatAssembler
  Something from Nothing Banned 66 13732 March 7, 2018 at 5:52 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Everything is nothing, and nothing is everything. goombah111 64 10998 January 3, 2017 at 3:15 pm
Last Post: goombah111
  Creatio Ex Nihilo - Forming Something out of Nothing? GrandizerII 70 13819 February 24, 2015 at 6:21 pm
Last Post: IATIA
  Something more. Mystic 20 3378 October 20, 2014 at 6:58 pm
Last Post: Mudhammam
  Can the laws of physics bring something into existence? Freedom of thought 23 6493 June 23, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Last Post: Surgenator
  "That's not nothing" Freedom of thought 38 8368 May 16, 2014 at 11:43 pm
Last Post: Freedom of thought
  The following is not a question: Can something come from nothing? Alex K 204 36314 April 16, 2014 at 6:02 pm
Last Post: ManMachine
  Why your exsistence is more worthless than you previousy thought it was. x2theone2x 101 22730 February 12, 2014 at 7:08 pm
Last Post: Angrboda



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)