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Systematically Dismantling Atheism
RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
(October 31, 2014 at 9:38 pm)IDScience Wrote: And at every step along the way an intelligent life form that is 1% superior in intelligence/attributes can logically & rationally exist from the perspective of the life form that is 1% inferior, and at no point along the way does this chain of slightly superior life forms become an irrational concept .... Therefore in this chain of logically possible life forms, the existence of life form 100000^100000 (i.e creator of the universe, thus God) becomes as logical a concept as life form 1.1 is.

Fatal flaw in the argument: this supreme being is not "as logical." While it is possible that a being could exist at every incremental stage in the increase of superiority, the probability of such a being existing decreases with every increment. It is not inconceivable that a being 1% more superior than us could exist; however, it is very inconceivable that a 'supreme' being could exist.

Second, I should point out that the argument only leads to the possibility of God. While there are some atheists who strictly say that there is definitely no God, most say that while it is possible that there is a God, there is no evidence for it. I acknowledge the vague possibility of a deity, but I have seen absolutely nothing in my life that supports as anything more than a wild supposition.
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RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
(October 31, 2014 at 9:56 pm)IDScience Wrote: I know what you believe because I know what you don't believe. Either God exists or he does not exist. Therefore If you claim you don't believe your team will lose, I understand you must believe your team will win because no third option exists.
Well then, you go ahead and produce a god, and the whole debate will be moot.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
I won't debate creationists, they're dishonest, unreliable and/or blind to facts.

I'll just say, in regards to your name, ID isn't a science. It's a claim with no supporting evidence.

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"You did WHAT?  With WHO?  WHERE???"
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RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
It is weird that a lot of people will accept the minute possibility that some sort of god may exist as evidence that it does actually exist, and that it happens to be as described in their handbook. And I don't know why they try to convince atheists of this, as atheists (as defined) never deny such a possibility.

I think if god was real we could do a little better than finding him some tiny dot of probability to pin all our hopes on.
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RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
(November 10, 2014 at 2:29 pm)Beccs Wrote: ID isn't a science. It's a claim with no supporting evidence.

Now that isn't quite true. They collect only the very best cherries to back their claims, even going so far as to quote real scientists where what they have to say can at least be interpreted to mean what the creationist believes.
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RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
That's what the Hovind Scale was designed for. I suggest we start applying it.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
Christian philosopher Alvin Plantinga once criticized Richard Dawkins' argument in The Blind Watcher maker as:

"P is not astronomically improbable, therefore P."

It's especially ironic because Plantinga, who presents himself to be quite fond of the ID movement, would seem to support an alternative form of argumentation in every other conceivable instance:

"The probability of P cannot be fully ascertained, therefore G."
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
I haven't been here for a bit. Is atheism still mantled?



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

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RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
(November 11, 2014 at 5:04 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I haven't been here for a bit. Is atheism still mantled?

Still in the process of mantling or dismantling. Still seems firmly mantled though.
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RE: Systematically Dismantling Atheism
I think we should rename this thread "Failing to dismantle atheism"

Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:

"You did WHAT?  With WHO?  WHERE???"
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