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Atheism = Desperation
#21
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 1, 2014 at 6:16 am)AtlasS Wrote: [quote='Aoi Magi' pid='787353' dateline='1414834531']
Ok, if it's not a head injury, then it might be too much alcohol or weed.

Thinking Druggggggggs "drools"

downbeatplumb

Quote:Observing in science is not about "checking the surroundings of a person deeply".
What does that even mean?

Quote:What I mentioned is the observing which led to the scientific method. The one where you deploy your senses to get acquire data from a primary source.

You mean "noticing things" is a muslim trait. Got ya.

Quote:Laws are a description of what we see not the universe telling things to behave that way. So you have this exactly the wrong way round.
Quote:The big bang, caused star x to form in a certain way that only produces a gravitational pole of "z". We described it as a law, with variables of course.
My point : the maker of the equation & the one who manipulated the variables to yield the universe we see is god.

I say it was an invisible giant pink bunny that did it. I have as much proof for this as you have for allah or whatever he's called today.

Quote:An atheist, such as myself, is not desperate for any sort of god because we do not believe there is any such thing.

With all due respect, you seem to be talking bollocks.
Quote:Don't you wish to have somebody in the sky who listens to your calls and needs & respond to it ? that's a dream to most humans.

No I don't. Please refrain from thinking that what you feel is universal.

Quote:My point : atheists stopped dreaming ; that is desperation. they concluded that god doesn't exist and terminated their dream.

Or, we opened our eyes and saw the truth.


Quote:So you have managed to encapsulate in this one sentence a complete misunderstanding of most modern science. Please read an up to date book on astronomy or physics or biology before commenting. The truth is far more interesting than the crude fantasy you believe in.
Quote:Of course. Believers like me are always ignorant in modern science. Please sir, teach Ali Baba how to read Tiger

If you don't want to be treated like a stereotypical Islamic apologist stop acting like one.

We used to have a fine member of staff here who is a muslim who let us see what an enlightened muslim could be like.

You are the opposite.
Quote:
That was just an example. I know all about evolution, and how humans only prospered AFTER THE ICE AGE, and that modern biology says humans are evolved through millions of years to adapt to the planet.

So you are an expert on biology and geology well golly gee willickers that's just dandy.

Why then do you come across as though you have never seen a scientific book?

Quote:Muslim scientists are an exception. What we see when we look at Islamic states is land after land hankering after the barbaric dark ages hoping beyond hope that the modern age goes away. Apart from the bits that kill people, they seem to like those.

Quote:You gotta love MSM. To be honest, we didn't enter the dark ages "NOW", actually muslims entered the dark ages when the British & French invasions came up resulting in "Sykes-picot" agreement, you can google that.

Actually they entered the dark ages when fundamentalists took control and tried to undo all the good work done under a more secular regime but I digress. There is a reason why the Islamic dress code is out of the 14th Century.
Quote:I'm not saying muslims are angels, many muslims did bad stuff,

DID BAD STUFF! have you seen ISIS, the Taliban, Saudi Arabia etc etc etc.

Quote:but the dark ages we live at now is not totally caused by ourselves.[/type]

Type that on your dark age computer did ya.

[quote]Tell the american government to stop supporting terrorists & dictators in the region.

Ok coz the American government totally listen to everything I tell them to do.
Quote:I don't think so because I have never seen any evidence for a supernatural being, let alone the specific one you happen to believe in.
I would imagine you were brought up in the faith of islam and so believe that religion.
If you had been born a Mormon you would be praising Joshua Smith

Quote:I'm not your typical "stereotype", and everybody around me knows that I'm off the norm & usually find my own way.

Then stop parroting things we've seen before and think for yourself.
Quote:I think the sun & the moon (and their location from earth) along with our atmosphere, are enough to conclude that god exists.

In this case you are just wrong.
Did you know the moon is moving steadily away from the earth and will eventually leave it?

Quote:No one said the universe was randomly created. The cause is as yet unknown but science is just getting over being held back by religious dogma and needs time to figure things out.

Give it time we'll get there.
Quote:maybe..

Quote:Your whole post stank of desperation.
Quote:Actually I'm pretty happy this morning and not desperate !

Well good, me too.Angel Cloud



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#22
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 1, 2014 at 5:35 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Ok, if it's not a head injury, then it might be too much alcohol or weed.

I am going with all three.

Desperate? Really? You are off base mate.
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#23
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 1, 2014 at 6:16 am)AtlasS Wrote: The big bang, caused star x to form in a certain way that only produces a gravitational pole of "z". We described it as a law, with variables of course.

I don't think you know very much about the big bang. Dodgy

Quote:My point : the maker of the equation & the one who manipulated the variables to yield the universe we see is god.

Do you have any indication at all that the laws of physics require direct manipulation to exist? Or that such a being exists that could do so?

You know what just insisting that one does exist without any reason to is called? Desperation. Rolleyes

Quote:Don't you wish to have somebody in the sky who listens to your calls and needs & respond to it ? that's a dream to most humans.

I'm not nearly egotistical enough to expend any mental energy on wishing that the universe respond to my beck and call. That "most humans" do is not indicative of a weakness on my part.

Quote:My point : atheists stopped dreaming ; that is desperation. they concluded that god doesn't exist and terminated their dream.

Do you know what's really important about dreams? They're not real.

All you're essentially saying is that atheists stopped fantasizing about nothing, and turned their lofty inspirations toward real things they could actually achieve. And you phrase this as a bad thing? Thinking
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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#24
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 1, 2014 at 6:38 am)miniboes Wrote: Yay, argument from design. Nobody is claiming the universe or life were 'randomly' created. If you think evolution and the big bang are random phenomena I would encourage you to look deeper into the theories.

The reason we see an archaeological monument and think it is made by humans is because there is strong evidence to suggest humans make archaeological monuments. For example, take the megaliths in the Dutch province of Drenthe:
http://www.johnkuipers.ca/photos/megalit...oon_06.jpg

The reason we do not see this as natural phenomena is that we know humans throughout history have used rocks to build structures and we do not know of any natural process that would get the rocks into this placement, especially since the Netherlands is an incredibly flat area.

We know of animals, trees, mountains and the universe that there are natural processes that can create them and no intervention of the supernatural is needed. Complex life can come forth out of evolution, mountains form by the movement of tectonic plates and the universe can be brought into existence with a big bang.

It is true that there are gaps in our understanding of how the universe as we know it came to be, for example we don't know how life came to exist. However, just filling the gaps with a god is useless; there is no evidence that a god actually exists and it doesn't actually explain anything as it raises the question of how that god came to exist.

I could make the claim that Boes the holy Ox created life, it would explains as much as your Allah theory does; absolutely nothing.

Now here's what desperate; starting with the presupposition that Allah exists, then filling all the gaps in scientific understanding with your divine Kim Jong Un to prove he exists. It's an incredibly circular and fallacious argument.

Good point you brought up, though the base that mostly adapted by Islam is the "Quran" itself.
As a chronological speech distributed over 600 pages -directly from god himself", the book literally calls you to test it against the universe & life itself.

That's how I mainly knew for certain that god exists. The universe pointed me out to the fact, but the Quran is the main base that made the claim. Here's the whole point.
Yes anyone can make a bald false claim -including Mohammed peace be upon him-.
The Quran is one base claim I believe.

robvalue

I just always put a possibility 0.5% that a direct speech from somebody is enough evidence. Here's where the Quran played its role for me. It's the only case where I believed in something based on reading only.

But not totally based on emotions. If reading the Quran was based on emotions, indeed I never dealt with the facts it give easily, I googled everything.
It never ceases to amaze me.
Even Micrometeoroids are mentioned in this book "literally".

Chas

Thinking because everything is perfect for us to live..too perfect.

Aoi Magi

-_- I'm laughing so hard
ha ha ha...

Chas

That is for god to say after all..I mean if god wanted muslims to decrease in numbers, that's his will.

Cato

Do you eat with that mouth ?
I don't think you understood me. My argument meant "everything is perfect for us to live in here".

Stimbo

It's the feeling that it's real, stimbo. I know it doesn't satisfy -and sometimes anger- atheists & scientists, but it's that deep feeling that something is different about this. Also called a "hunch".. When I tell people about Islam, I tell them very honestly that my evidence is a book & my eyes, if somebody felt the same way like I do so be it, if they didn't then it's up to what their hearts may choose.
It's something emotional. It's not selling, I don't use propaganda, I don't grow a 4 meter beard to show myself as a priest. I just say what I thought & felt.

Your last question is something I can't answer -due to ignorance-. But I gotta know the answer someday. My basic answer would be "humans don't know it all ; even when armed with science"..but it's a lame answer..

Thanks for passing by Smile
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#25
RE: Atheism = Desperation
Quote:But not totally based on emotions. If reading the Quran was based on emotions, indeed I never dealt with the facts it give easily, I googled everything.
It never ceases to amaze me.
Even Micrometeoroids are mentioned in this book "literally".

Oh wow. That's some hard evidence there. Microfuckingmeteoroids, huh? Well, the Bible mentions fig trees "literally" as well. Twilight mentions cars "literally". Harry Potter mentions cars "literally", and the Hunger Games mentions bread "literally".

So by your oh so sound logic, all of these other works of fiction MUST ALSO BE TRUE!
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#26
RE: Atheism = Desperation
So you don't know it's real, like you stated earlier; you just feel that it is. Do you test this hunch to see if it survives against reality, or are you so complacent that the dreams are enough for you? I'm not talking about books either, even if you are. We know from books that Wally (or his transatlantic doppelgänger Waldo) is an emaciated lanky idiot wearing a red and white barberpole jersey with matching bobble ski cap and Harry Potter glasses, with a woefully overinflated opinion of his own talent for camouflage. But where is he?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#27
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 1, 2014 at 5:12 am)AtlasS Wrote: Just like a band of cavemen who found an archeological monument, instead of admitting that somebody built it, the cavemen just said "it's randomly built !! nature built it".

I admit to thinking somebody built the god story.

Desperate?
Disparate maybe.
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#28
RE: Atheism = Desperation
Earth is perfect for us humans? really? Without any of our human inventions like clothing, we can't survive in most of the locations on this planet where other lifeforms thrive. A little temperature or climate change can kill us, without our inventions, most of the wildlife can kill us in seconds. Without our advancements in the medical field, our average lifespan would be about 30 years.

I would be more inclined to believe that we, the humans don't actually belong on this planet, rather than thinking it was made for us.

And if you mean perfect conditions for life, then there are literally billions of such planets all over the universe. Google it.
Quote:To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.
- Lau Tzu

Join me on atheistforums Slack Cool Shades (pester tibs via pm if you need invite) Tongue

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#29
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 1, 2014 at 10:35 am)AtlasS Wrote: Good point you brought up, though the base that mostly adapted by Islam is the "Quran" itself.
As a chronological speech distributed over 600 pages -directly from god himself", the book literally calls you to test it against the universe & life itself.

That's how I mainly knew for certain that god exists. The universe pointed me out to the fact, but the Quran is the main base that made the claim. Here's the whole point.
Yes anyone can make a bald false claim -including Mohammed peace be upon him-.
The Quran is one base claim I believe.

How does the universe 'point out' that a god exists? What exactly makes you believe the Quran (don't say faith)?
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#30
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 1, 2014 at 5:12 am)AtlasS Wrote: Hello. How are you guys ?

The concept of observing (which gave birth to the scientific method) is simply about spending time checking the surroundings of a person deeply. Especially the events which take place away from human intervention.

Observing opened up the gates to admit & conclude by every scientist in the world, that our universe is ruled & governed by an invisible law which is not viewable outside the written form of a mathematical equation or a chemical formula.

But when I think about a difference between "Islam" & "Atheism", I usually see the biggest difference since both branches of faith have scientists & smart people, which is "desperation".

Atheists are desperate from the idea of a merciful beautiful god, who actually gave this universe a law after creating it.
Just like a band of cavemen who found an archeological monument, instead of admitting that somebody built it, the cavemen just said "it's randomly built !! nature built it".

While a Muslim scientist is not desperate at all. There is an entity which made all of this, the signs are there, and an entity that created all of this cannot be lesser than the one & only "god". Allah in Arabic.

Desperation is very bad. It's not just bad, it's evil actually to see the universe, and just plainly and simply say "this is randomly created".

It defies science. It's a desperate act of utter desperation.

I've heard a few times now, Muslims using the laws of the universe as evidence for god, surely you know that the laws of gravity and other laws, are called laws because there's certain observable things that you can observe about gravity that pretty much always happen, they aren't called laws because they were definitely created by god, the invisible policeman of the universe.
It's like when on a TV show about nature someone uses the phrase "The laws of nature, the fittest survive." The fittest usually survive because they're the fittest, it doesn't mean there's an invisible policeman helping the fittest survive and upholding the laws of nature.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





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