Atheism = Desperation

[Aoi Magi]

I am sane right now, so not-sure-ism = sanity.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Hello. How are you guys ?

The concept of observing (which gave birth to the scientific method) is simply about spending time checking the surroundings of a person deeply. Especially the events which take place away from human intervention.

Observing opened up the gates to admit & conclude by every scientist in the world, that our universe is ruled & governed by an invisible law which is not viewable outside the written form of a mathematical equation or a chemical formula.

But when I think about a difference between "Islam" & "Atheism", I usually see the biggest difference since both branches of faith have scientists & smart people, which is "desperation".

Atheists are desperate from the idea of a merciful beautiful god, who actually gave this universe a law after creating it.
Just like a band of cavemen who found an archeological monument, instead of admitting that somebody built it, the cavemen just said "it's randomly built !! nature built it".

While a Muslim scientist is not desperate at all. There is an entity which made all of this, the signs are there, and an entity that created all of this cannot be lesser than the one & only "god". Allah in Arabic.

Desperation is very bad. It's not just bad, it's evil actually to see the universe, and just plainly and simply say "this is randomly created".

It defies science. It's a desperate act of utter desperation.

You know what irks me? I spend an awful lot of time criticizing generalizations, and around here that means that I'm constantly arguing that broad generalizations of Muslims like you are the main object.

You should really know better than to be using a broad-brush, but don't worry -- I won't hold your illogic against the other Muslims I come across.

Stop being an asshole, and treat people as individuals.

Also, claiming atheism is a faith is ignorant, and probably deliberate ignorance on your part.

[Aoi Magi]

Atheism is a faith. It is the faith in humanity. Without it you'd lose any and all hope for humanity.

[abaris]

Atheism is a faith. It is the faith in humanity. Without it you'd lose any and all hope for humanity.

Nope, based on what I see, I don't hold that faith.

[LastPoet]

If you can be drunk on faith, you will believe.

I still prefer the regular booze. With that, I only worry about not driving or flying aircraft.

[Simon Moon]

Atheism is a faith. It is the faith in humanity. Without it you'd lose any and all hope for humanity.

You might be talking about Secular Humanism. Not atheism.

But even then, I would not call Secular Humanism a 'faith'. At least not in the same way theists use the word.

Atheism is simply the disbelief in the existence of gods. No faith necessary.

[abaris]

You might be talking about Secular Humanism. Not atheism.

You can subscribe to secular humanism without having faith in humanity. I do, I want a better social environment, but I think it's still a very stony path unitl it actually happens.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Atheism is a faith. It is the faith in humanity. Without it you'd lose any and all hope for humanity.

No, it isn't. It is the lack of belief in gods.

[WinterHold]

There is a lot of hate around here..like come on guys, what is wrong with all of you, some of you remind me of angry extremist Muslims ! phew the hostility !!

downbeatplumb

If you don't want to be treated like a stereotypical Islamic apologist stop acting like one.
We used to have a fine member of staff here who is a muslim who let us see what an enlightened muslim could be like.
You are the opposite.

I'm sorry, but who are you to judge me for being an apologist ? if I see Islam as a rational faith, it's my own problem dear.
It's a personal faith of mine, that I'm trying to show the members why I picked it up over atheism and all other faiths.

They call it a point of view. Apologist ? these names matter non with me, because I totally think the Quran is rational ; it doesn't need me to put rational guidelines for it.

Actually they entered the dark ages when fundamentalists took control and tried to undo all the good work done under a more secular regime but I digress. There is a reason why the Islamic dress code is out of the 14th Century.

You mean "arabian" dress code. Huge difference you know.
The ottoman Muslims -who aren't arabs- used to wear suites & ties.

Esquilax

Do you have any indication at all that the laws of physics require direct manipulation to exist? Or that such a being exists that could do so?
You know what just insisting that one does exist without any reason to is called? Desperation.

Of course you have. That's why I can't make a nuclear fission inside my kitchen. To witness a physical law executing, somebody must call the function let alone, somebody must create the law in the first place, don't he ?
X+X means nothing in C++ unless the maker programmed it to accept such value.
Of course you know that the rules of physics still collapse in alien environments -like the radius of a black hole- ?

All you're essentially saying is that atheists stopped fantasizing about nothing, and turned their lofty inspirations toward real things they could actually achieve. And you phrase this as a bad thing?

I don't know, but I think believing in god never stopped somebody from "turning to reality".

Endo

Oh wow. That's some hard evidence there. Microfuckingmeteoroids, huh? Well, the Bible mentions fig trees "literally" as well. Twilight mentions cars "literally". Harry Potter mentions cars "literally", and the Hunger Games mentions bread "literally".

So by your oh so sound logic, all of these other works of fiction MUST ALSO BE TRUE!

It's different when a nomad, living in the desert, describes something that would not be discovered unless after 1400 years, and it's impossible to discover during ancient time since space programs didn't exist.

Stimbo

So you don't know it's real, like you stated earlier; you just feel that it is. Do you test this hunch to see if it survives against reality, or are you so complacent that the dreams are enough for you? I'm not talking about books either, even if you are. We know from books that Wally (or his transatlantic doppelgänger Waldo) is an emaciated lanky idiot wearing a red and white barberpole jersey with matching bobble ski cap and Harry Potter glasses, with a woefully overinflated opinion of his own talent for camouflage. But where is he?

I did. Even if my "testing method" wasn't that loved by many people. Let's leave Islam out of it now & its book.

The rules & the laws around life, death & everything make me suspect something else is out there. That's the base though -not faith- that I have when I check out everything.

What made this stronger to me, is studying Computer Science, CS is all about rules & laws that work together to form a meaningful means of output. Without these laws or rules (which are made by us) stimbo, the code will not run. There will be no code.

life is exactly a c++ or a java function, with YOU as the argument. Just as if somebody made a code like this one :

void life (Human x)
{

----- events by god like your birth
-----events by you

//You die here and terminate the function
return;

}
Human stimbo = new Human( ) ;
Human AtlasS = new Human ( ) ;
...
//call the function life
life(stimbo);
life (AtlasS)

Sorry for the long writing..actually this is a simple pseudocode that literally represents life & death. Do you, if I changed the return type of the function "life" from void to "char * " , I can get every tiny bit of activity you did within your life ?

This is my point stimbo.. I know that my feelings are right, because simply I can represent life as an organized series of events. If I'm the programmer, I'll have the total control over everything.

That's why I mainly believe in god.
If I couldn't represent life in a computer code, I wouldn't be so sure. I would admit it too.

When I test the Quran then against CS at least : I can literally make sure it is at least logical : has no flaws. Now I'm speaking about a book that made me sure.

Well Rounded Rectangle

Questioning it is not desperation.
Believing it was forged is the desperation.

Aoi Magi

Earth is perfect for us humans? really? Without any of our human inventions like clothing, we can't survive in most of the locations on this planet where other lifeforms thrive. A little temperature or climate change can kill us, without our inventions, most of the wildlife can kill us in seconds. Without our advancements in the medical field, our average lifespan would be about 30 years.

I would be more inclined to believe that we, the humans don't actually belong on this planet, rather than thinking it was made for us.

And if you mean perfect conditions for life, then there are literally billions of such planets all over the universe. Google it.

Hello little elf.

Earth isn't that perfect for us ; according to the Quran that I believe in, our presence here is in the first place a "test" ; that's why we die eventually. We die because this planet isn't for us ; now at least. Humans were created for heaven.

I think god taught us how to protect ourselves by giving the same animals we eat a "skin" that protects them from earth's wrath.

I think you're a vegetarian.
I meant "suitable for us to live enough until the exam ends".

Okay if there billions of planets like earth, that adds up nothing to the argument you pose. Even if we existed in the 23e2234 planet, it's the same story : just an examination.

miniboes

How does the universe 'point out' that a god exists? What exactly makes you believe the Quran (don't say faith)?

The question "why" are these things there ?
and, the laws of the universe itself which points out to a creator.
And, the code I posted in this post.


paulpablo

I've heard a few times now, Muslims using the laws of the universe as evidence for god, surely you know that the laws of gravity and other laws, are called laws because there's certain observable things that you can observe about gravity that pretty much always happen, they aren't called laws because they were definitely created by god, the invisible policeman of the universe.
It's like when on a TV show about nature someone uses the phrase "The laws of nature, the fittest survive." The fittest usually survive because they're the fittest, it doesn't mean there's an invisible policeman helping the fittest survive and upholding the laws of nature.

Who made them fit in the first place ? or, who made their bodies capable of being fit ?

[robvalue]

You say this universe is self-evidently one that was created. What would a universe look like that was not created?

We recognize things as created and so having a creator by contrasting with things we know occur naturally. C++ computer code does not occur naturally, that's why we recognise it as created. We have no other universe "occuring naturally" to compare to.

Saying there is a creator is an assertion, not an argument.

Saying the creator is whatever god you happen to favour is an assertion on an assertion.

This is all the fallacy of imposing an intent or agency onto everything. "How else could it happen?" is the argument from ignorance/personal incredulity.

If this was all as obvious as you would like to think, no one would even be discussing it. If god wants us to know he exists, he is doing a terrible job of it. If he is hiding, that's his problem.