Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation:
123
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 4:07 pm
(November 3, 2014 at 4:00 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Here's what confuses me. I have exactly the same epidemiological stance, apply reason to experience, and yet I reach a different conclusion, i.e. God exists. Why then, is my belief in God a worldview and your opposite conclusion not one?
Don't you have a book of attendant other beliefs that go along with your god conclusion that you're bound to follow? A B-something?
That's why. In your case, there really is a whole bunch of things your chosen religion entails, which atheism just does not have. Now, I don't think that's universal, since there are god conclusions that don't make any additional demands upon the person who accepts them, like deism, but in terms of organized religions there's certainly a lot of additional premises included that you're morally bound to follow, in accordance with the doctrine.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Posts: 13051
Threads: 66
Joined: February 7, 2011
Reputation:
92
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 4:12 pm
(This post was last modified: November 3, 2014 at 4:13 pm by Faith No More.)
(November 3, 2014 at 4:00 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Here's what confuses me. I have exactly the same epidemiological stance, apply reason to experience, and yet I reach a different conclusion, i.e. God exists. Why then, is my belief in God a worldview and your opposite conclusion not one? Moreover, having reached that conclusion I can carry that over as the premise of further inquiry. Why are atheists incapable of doing the same?
But you don't have the same epistemological stance that we do, which is most apparent in your use of Aristotelian ideals.
Your belief in god is a worldview because your conclusion leads to philosophical consequences that affect your perspective on everything that exists, while the lack of belief in god simply entails that further information is needed to create a complete worldview.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Posts: 1543
Threads: 40
Joined: April 4, 2014
Reputation:
46
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 4:36 pm
(November 2, 2014 at 8:34 am)dimaniac Wrote: It is scientific and logical
If you were any other poster, I would say "I am a bio robot. I don't deny it".
However, it is, you, so instead I'll say "Shut up, you disingenuous fuck."
Posts: 8711
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 5:04 pm
(November 3, 2014 at 4:00 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Here's what confuses me. I have exactly the same epidemiological stance, apply reason to experience, and yet I reach a different conclusion, i.e. God exists. Why then, is my belief in God a worldview and your opposite conclusion not one? Moreover, having reached that conclusion I can carry that over as the premise of further inquiry. Why are atheists incapable of doing the same? (November 3, 2014 at 4:12 pm)Faith No More Wrote: But you don't have the same epistemological stance that we do, which is most apparent in your use of Aristotelian ideals. I don’t see the difference. In the context of a previous post, the stance was defined as reason applied to experience. Aristotelian and Neo-Scholastic metaphysics come out of that approach just as much as any other metaphysical position.
(November 3, 2014 at 4:12 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Your belief in god is a worldview because your conclusion leads to philosophical consequences that affect your perspective on everything that exists, while the lack of belief in god simply entails that further information is needed to create a complete worldview. Truly, I believe you’re reaching. You cannot honestly believe that atheism doesn’t affect subsequent inquiry. Ruling out options, like divine influence over physical reality, is one such philosophical consequence.
Posts: 13122
Threads: 130
Joined: October 18, 2014
Reputation:
55
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 5:08 pm
(November 3, 2014 at 5:04 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You cannot honestly believe that atheism doesn’t affect subsequent inquiry. Ruling out options, like divine influence over physical reality, is one such philosophical consequence.
There's a difference between ruling out and not believing in. One is gnostic, the other one agnostic.
Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation:
123
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 5:18 pm
(November 3, 2014 at 5:04 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Truly, I believe you’re reaching. You cannot honestly believe that atheism doesn’t affect subsequent inquiry. Ruling out options, like divine influence over physical reality, is one such philosophical consequence.
Of course it affects subsequent inquiry, but it doesn't make explicit demands of what one should believe, with the same level of asserted epistemological authority as organized religion does. Tell me, do you think every person reaches exactly the same conclusions about everything? If your answer is no- and really, why wouldn't it be?- then I have to ask why you think every atheist would come to precisely the same conclusions, just because they happen to have reached one conclusion in common? Do cultural, intellectual and other forms of context mean nothing in the determination of one's opinions? Is it only the belief in a god that affects that? If not, then what is stopping atheists from reaching vastly different conclusions about every other question, despite having common ground with regards to nonbelief in god? There are no mandates or commands that atheists should believe or adhere to this or that principle, there's nothing to guide them by fiat to any set of ideals, beyond the single conclusion they've come to regarding divinity. Hell, even the strength or stringency to which they hold that conclusion varies between atheists.
Contrast that with organized religion, where the god conclusion grants huge amounts of authority to a set of claims contained within scriptures or religious doctrines, that do impose upon the rest of your beliefs in a much more present and directed way. Surely you can see the difference now?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Posts: 13051
Threads: 66
Joined: February 7, 2011
Reputation:
92
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 5:23 pm
(November 3, 2014 at 5:04 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: I don’t see the difference. In the context of a previous post, the stance was defined as reason applied to experience. Aristotelian and Neo-Scholastic metaphysics come out of that approach just as much as any other metaphysical position.
Stop being obtuse.
(November 3, 2014 at 5:04 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Truly, I believe you’re reaching. You cannot honestly believe that atheism doesn’t affect subsequent inquiry. Ruling out options, like divine influence over physical reality, is one such philosophical consequence.
Sure, it affects subsequent inquiry, but by a fraction of the amount that theism does. By believing in god you view everything through a specific lens, while not belieivng in god only entails that you won't be using that one lens.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Posts: 1121
Threads: 53
Joined: February 5, 2013
Reputation:
15
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 5:27 pm
(November 2, 2014 at 8:34 am)dimaniac Wrote: It is scientific and logical
Here's the thing. Abstraction and decontextualisation of thought is important to our evolution and survival.
In order to form tribes (without which we would long since have disappeared) we must develop social abilities, these require sharing of abstract ideas. To contextualise these ideas we need a sense of past, present and future - memory, self-awareness and prediction. These are highly developed, very complex mechanisms that require a sense of self determination, autonomy from the environmental forces and biological imperatives that really drive us.
It is a shared delusion, but a necessary one.
We are bio-bots, but we can't let anyone know our dirty little secret otherwise it will all unravel... then where will we be, worshiping the sun again.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
Posts: 8711
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 5:29 pm
(This post was last modified: November 3, 2014 at 5:30 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
Exlax, its called logic. I know its difficult for you but anyone can see that on the one hand you say theism is a worldview because believers have many and various beliefs and on the other hand you say atheism isn't a worldview because atheists have many and various beliefs.
Posts: 7045
Threads: 20
Joined: June 17, 2014
Reputation:
55
RE: Why do atheists deny that they are just biorobots?
November 3, 2014 at 5:31 pm
I believe the point is that their theism is the source of those beliefs, whereas atheism is one result among many that is arrived to through investigation of the world.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
|