Atheism & the Middle East.

[WinterHold]

Hey, how are you guys & gals ?

Many reports started to come up from the Middle East about atheism there. As uncommon as it might gets, nobody can deny it's a phenomena ; it was expected though to spread, in response to the spread of Salafi Islam in the region via Saudi Arabia.

The following report -from Al-Jazeera, discusses this phenomena in Egypt :

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/feature...90660.html

Death awaited many atheists who come out of the closet -at the hands of Salafi Muslims mainly-.

In Saudi Arabia, a new law was formed which declares atheists as terrorists :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...28389.html

Though, the law had other means to stop the Salafi backfire in Syria from burning Saudi Arabia.

Mainly, killing atheists & butchering them is a sentence dictated by Salafi Islam.
Salafi Islam simply overrides the Quran with scholars' words.

The Quran says :

( 256 ) There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Salafi Islam is the branch of islam where such a verse is ignored & replaced with what is called 'the Hadith' ; the hadith is a group of books, the earliest of them is written 300 years after Mohammed's death, claiming via their authors that they contain "extra" information that the Quran didn't mention.. so Salafi islam is literally based on dumping the Quran & practicing a new religion.

In Salafi religion, they have a hadith says :

"Ibn Abbas have said : that the prophet mohammed had said :Kill whomever changes his religion". Bukhari book of Hadith.

As the above faith is spreading -which isis practices too-, the middle east is exploding with the counter-faith i.e atheism-.

[simplemoss]

Isn't communistic atheism pretty popular over there? I know Ethiopia Somalia Libya and Afghanistan have had Communist movements and the Kurdish pkk are Communists (yes the same Kurds were supporting in Syria and Iraq) but I've never really seen alot of atheist persecution in the middle east. Maybe where Shari'a law is upheld but Christians live in the middle east by millions and there not killed everyday (regardless of what fox news would have think)

[WinterHold]

Isn't communistic atheism pretty popular over there? I know Ethiopia Somalia Libya and Afghanistan have had Communist movements and the Kurdish pkk are Communists (yes the same Kurds were supporting in Syria and Iraq) but I've never really seen alot of atheist persecution in the middle east. Maybe where Shari'a law is upheld but Christians live in the middle east by millions and there not killed everyday (regardless of what fox news would have think)

Many people -if not a majority- of whom I know, don't actually practice islam, they don't read the Quran or pray.
In college, praying was a big burden in outings with Muslims -since non of them prayed-. Alcohol, sex, drugs all these things a pretty common in Muslims countries.

Egypt is well known for its fine weed & strip clubs ; even gay bars. But, keep it to yourself.
Technically, as the guy in al-jazeera article described it : keep it to yourself & nobody would harm you.

Communism & atheism here is mixed with Islam ; Saddam Hussain was irreligious, yet he prayed in public and even had "Allahu Akbar" on the Iraqi flag.

The PKK also has many who pray, fast and practice Islam. It's different than the "soviet communism".

Mostly, Islam is viewed as a heritage -not only a religion-, even to many atheists & irreligious people -like Saddam Hussain & Bashar Al Assad in Syria-.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Isn't communistic atheism pretty popular over there? I know Ethiopia Somalia Libya and Afghanistan have had Communist movements and the Kurdish pkk are Communists (yes the same Kurds were supporting in Syria and Iraq) but I've never really seen alot of atheist persecution in the middle east. Maybe where Shari'a law is upheld but Christians live in the middle east by millions and there not killed everyday (regardless of what fox news would have think)

Although saying that the Coptics have been persecuted and driven from their homes by the thousands in Syria and Iraq.

Many have also been killed in Egypt following the 'Arab Spring'.

[WinterHold]

Isn't communistic atheism pretty popular over there? I know Ethiopia Somalia Libya and Afghanistan have had Communist movements and the Kurdish pkk are Communists (yes the same Kurds were supporting in Syria and Iraq) but I've never really seen alot of atheist persecution in the middle east. Maybe where Shari'a law is upheld but Christians live in the middle east by millions and there not killed everyday (regardless of what fox news would have think)

Although saying that the Coptics have been persecuted and driven from their homes by the thousands in Syria and Iraq.

Many have also been killed in Egypt following the 'Arab Spring'.

This is false and stereotypical information.

Coptics are Christians of Egypt ; there are not copt people in Iraq or Syria ; there are " Christians".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copts

I was in Egypt during the arab spring. And completed my study during it ; too.
Copts weren't dying.
Protestors were being killed which is a different case.

The wealthiest families in Egypt are coptic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawiris_Family

In 2008, Forbes estimated the family's net worth at $36 billion.[3][4][5][6]

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Ok, so they're not coptics - But Christians and other minorities were and are being killed is Syria and Iraq, right now.

As to your last point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts#2010

Perhaps take your blinkers off (and yes I'm aware of many Egyptians looking to defend and speak out against Coptic persecution. But denial of that persecution is utterly insane, especially following the MB's rise and subsequent fall during the 'Arab Spring' - A laughable event with a laughable title).

False and sterotypical information indeed.

[WinterHold]

Ok, so they're not coptics - But Christians and other minorities were and are being killed is Syria and Iraq, right now.

As to your last point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts#2010

Perhaps take your blinkers off (and yes I'm aware of many Egyptians looking to defend and speak out against Coptic persecution. But denial of that persecution is utterly insane, especially following the MB's rise and subsequent fall during the 'Arab Spring' - A laughable event with a laughable title).

False and sterotypical information indeed.

So the Arab spring was a laughable event ? interesting.
Tell that to all the rebels who sacrificed their lives to overthrow dictators like Husny Mubarak, who made Egypt drench in poverty beyond 50%.
But I don't think you saw or even heard, how Muslims & Christian copts stood together against the dictator regime.

MB weren't even capable of prosecuting a kitten. MB had no power ; no wonder they were overthrown in a matter of days.
I really want to ask you : how could an organization causing all this horror & prosecution, gets overthrown in a matter of days ?

And you also know that the only documented case of prosecution, involved the massacre or Rab'a square ; where -only islamists- men and women and children, were killed in thousands, right ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2013_Rabaa_Massacre

quoting :

The raids were described by Human Rights Watch as the most serious incident of mass unlawful killings in modern Egyptian history.[9] According to Human Rights Watch, at least 817 and likely well over 1,000 people were killed in Rabaa Square on August 14.[10]

But of course fidel, muslim deaths are never counted ; of course.
Muslims are sub-human and deserve to die ; after all.

Double standards are not a good thing

[Cato]

Are you seriously arguing that the Hadiths are not Islamic? That they have no bearing on the behavior of Muslims? Even if that were true you still have huge issues with the Quran:

Sura 4:101
When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.

Sura 5:33
Those who wage war against God and His Messenger and strive to spread corruption in the land should be punished by death, crucifixion, the amputation of an alternate hand and foot or banishment from the land: a disgrace for them in this world, and then a terrible punishment in the Hereafter . . . .

Doesn't take long to find out that spreading corruption has a wide range of activity with severe punishment.

Sura 5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them. This friendship makes any Muslim a enemy of their own and deserving of the same fate as the unbeliever. This is because God does not guide an unjust people.

Sura 5:73
Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third of a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution.

Sura 8:12
I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.

Sura 9:5
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.

Sura 9:29
Fight those who do not believe in Allah - until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a states of subjection with willing submission and feel themselves subdued

Sura 9.73
O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

Sura 9.123
O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you

Sura 22:19-20
Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.
Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: "Taste the torment of the Conflagration!"


Sura 28:86
Never be a helper to the disbelievers.

Sura 66:9
O Prophet! make war on the infidels and hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their abode! and wretched the passage to it!

Sura 72:15
The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.

This is kitman at its finest. Religion of peace my ass. Here's a little clue for you: if you have to lie (outright or via omission) to support your claim, chances are your claim is wrong.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Ok, so they're not coptics - But Christians and other minorities were and are being killed is Syria and Iraq, right now.

As to your last point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts#2010

Perhaps take your blinkers off (and yes I'm aware of many Egyptians looking to defend and speak out against Coptic persecution. But denial of that persecution is utterly insane, especially following the MB's rise and subsequent fall during the 'Arab Spring' - A laughable event with a laughable title).

False and sterotypical information indeed.

So the Arab spring was a laughable event ? interesting.
Tell that to all the rebels who sacrificed their lives to overthrow dictators like Husny Mubarak, who made Egypt drench in poverty beyond 50%.
But I don't think you saw or even heard, how Muslims & Christian copts stood together against the dictator regime.

I acknowledged that - right there in the post quoted.

The Arab spring was a failure by anyone's standards. Have things improved socially or economically since the uprising began in places like Egypt, Tunisia or Libya? Indeed, the latter is looking more and more like a failed state as the months go on with inter tribal conflicts rife.

The main problem is that the secular voices in these countries were downed out before the revolutions really got going. One dictator was replaced with another dictator, or worse, nothing at all.

MB weren't even capable of prosecuting a kitten. MB had no power ; no wonder they were overthrown in a matter of days.
I really want to ask you : how could an organization causing all this horror & prosecution, gets overthrown in a matter of days ?

Military intervention helped. The only thing one thing that remains constant in Egypt is their strong military.

They were overthrown, yes, but what of the millions that ascribed to their policies of persecution and gradual ostracism of everything classed as an other?

I fully supported the removal of Morsi and his MB cronies. Still don't see what that has to do with endemic persecution of coptics in recent years both before and after the removal of Mubarak.

And you also know that the only documented case of prosecution, involved the massacre or Rab'a square ; where -only islamists- men and women and children, were killed in thousands, right ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2013_Rabaa_Massacre

quoting :

The raids were described by Human Rights Watch as the most serious incident of mass unlawful killings in modern Egyptian history.[9] According to Human Rights Watch, at least 817 and likely well over 1,000 people were killed in Rabaa Square on August 14.[10]

But of course fidel, muslim deaths are never counted ; of course.
Muslims are sub-human and deserve to die ; after all.

Double standards are not a good thing

Again, I don't see the relevance. Good on those Egyptians that wanted the removal of an Islamist government in Egypt.

RE: Bold - Please don't put words into my mouth. There are no double standards here because we weren't even discussing that subject.

[DramaQueen]

I used to be a Quranist, the reasoning behind that was that the Hadiths were written down decades after the death of Muhammad. Why should I trust the writers of the Hadiths.

Then the Sunnis asked how do I pray. the Quran is vague, and most of what I used to do was from the hadiths I was okay with.

Then I became a deist, I read a bit about other religions. Then I learned a bit about Judaism cause I didn't have a reason not to learn Hebrew. → on the fence agnostic → agnostic atheist