Some things being above reason

[dyresand]

Usually Christians claim that faith while not contrary to reason is above it and that there are things which reason is incapable of determining or deciding upon.

As an atheist, do you see anything as being above reason or something which you see reason as incapable of addressing (not faith or something supernatural obviously)? Or do you think reason is very much absolute and that anything said to be above or beyond reason is not worth considering?

Just wondering what the general take on this issue is among fellow atheist.

is faith above reason... my reaction

[FifthElement]

Falling back on emergent properties? Might as well invoke magic; it has the same explanatory capacity.

Never seen magic related scientific paper in my life, have you ?

Here is one (of many) about emergence (strong kind):

http://necsi.edu/research/multiscale/Mul...rgence.pdf

Try to remember that serious study of strong emergence is pretty recent stuff ...

It is a tough nut to crack.

However, I believe only science is gonna crack it one day, and then, religious nuts are gonna conveniently find passages in their holly books which speak of Holy Emergence

Nope, not just bit more then a buzz word

[Piscinin]

...there are obviously altered states to our usual consciousness...But I don't think any of them trump all others.

Yes mystical/visionary states are only one part of the overall human experience. They do all contribute to the overall health and well being of the person, e. g. if you don't get enough sleep it affects you mood. Sleep or wakefulness are both necessity. One can oversleep. One can stay awake too late. Visionary states profoundly affect those who have them but they are rare and apparently not everyone is fortunate enough to have experienced them. I find that very sad.

Don't forget that you never escape being an electro-chemical being with emotional and feeling states as well as cognitive ones...

I would dispute, on both experiential and philosophical grounds that physical reduction does not capture the fullness of what it means to be human.

...all you have now is your remembrance of the event - and that isn't the same thing at all.

Nor do we remember dreams with the salience they had while we slept, but they can contribute to our waking lives even as our waking lives intrude into our dreams.

The one thing I never understood is why we cure schizophrenics. Instead we should envy them, they can see&hear things "above reason".