Some things being above reason

[dyresand]

if there is things being reason we should question it god being above reason if he exists should be questioned.
we are human we question things so nothing is really beyond reason. people like preachers will tell you do
not and give you a parameter in which you are supposed to live your life and to have faith of reason that the
bible is correct.

[Rayaan]

Well it's hard to deny that, obviously, we are all fundamentally unique combinations of both rational and irrational thinking. There are some things that we can recognize right away (often called intuition) without understanding exactly how or why, and there are also other things which we deduce through means of effortful and logical processing.

I think that people also sometimes suppress their first impressions (or their intuition) about something by trying to justify it through formal modes of rationalization. They do so because they overestimate the reliability of their logical reasoning. In regards to belief in God, and how this relates to what I just said, I think that every human being possess within themselves a latent inclination to believe that there must exist a great, incomprehensible mind or an intelligence behind all the natural events, behind the abounding complexity, order, and harmony that we see in the universe.

But unfortunately many people suppress this inner inclination by trying to make it conform with logic and evidence.

[Chad32]

I'll go so far as to admit that the vast majority of people have a somewhat superstitious nature. There are also still gaps in our knowledge, despite the milestones we've crossed in understanding the universe.

This does not translate into evidence of some creator deity. Certainly not a theistic god that cares about how much you worship him. Even if we all agreed there had to be a creator, that will only get you as far as deism, or pantheism.

[abaris]

This does not translate into evidence of some creator deity. Certainly not a theistic god that cares about how much you worship him. Even if we all agreed there had to be a creator, that will only get you as far as deism, or pantheism.

As a matter of fact, I left christianity a long time ago, but it was still a long time till I called myself a real atheist. For years, I had this concept you describe above. A neutral uncaring force was my god concept until I realized I only followed the god of the gaps.

[Chas]

Beyond reason, outside of reason, without reason, but nothing is above reason.

[Whateverist]

I'll settle for along side reason.

[Rayaan]

"Above reason" in my interpretation means the same thing as being "above comprehensibility."

Reason is merely a logic-based aspect of human comprehension, so some things can still be true even if they don't fall within the bounds of reason. Furthermore, I think that the intuitive nature of man is a great deal superior than the rationalizing parts of his brain; intuitions come faster than reason. Our intuition contains beliefs and ideas that are not always provable by the rigid rules of logic and rationality. That is because intuitions are psychologically ingrained in us - or they simply exist - and because they operate at a much faster rate than the down-to-earth logical information processing.

It's also interesting that the Arabic word for an atheist is "kafir," and it is derived from the root K-F-R which means to "to cover up," "to hide," or "to conceal." But conceal what exactly? Muslim scholars say that this could mean that kafirs/atheists deny and conceal their fitrah, which is an ingrained knowledge or intuition that inclines everyone towards the belief in God. The word "kafir" is also a name that is used for farmers because they cover up the seeds with soil while planting them. But the root meaning of the word is still the same - i.e. "to cover" something.

[TreeSapNest]

Usually Christians claim that faith while not contrary to reason is above it and that there are things which reason is incapable of determining or deciding upon.

I can't determine if on February 8th, 1006 at 4:01pm there was a person swimming in the body of water known today as Kueka Lake. :-) I couldn't decide one way or the other. So, yup.

My understanding of the world, however, does lead me to believe that gods are not real.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Also, could we not say that some things, like sensation, are pre-rational? And I know in my own case that mystical experiences are ineffable. They simply cannot be broken down into the concepts of ordinary consciousness.

No - that would be argument from ignorance.

Ordinary conscious states are those of ignorance compared to the perspective of mystical insight.

[Minimalist]

Clearly sex is above reason. Beer too.

I disagree. Sex and beer are totally reasonable.