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North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
#1
North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
You can do your own google to find the story. The point of this post is to dispel the myth that liberals and atheists are fascists.

I really hate it when you challenge someone on economic issues or point out that their political tent is narrow, that you are seeking a nanny state.

There are a growing number of minorities now voting for the GOP. For the life of me I cannot understand why. But in a free society that is certainly their choice.

So if the GOP is going to claim minorities now, then fine, there still is a history of good economics and bad economic policy. And there also is a history of who is hurt more in a given population by that policy.

Before I go on, I am going to make it clear. Liberals DO NOT want a one party state, or become like North Korea. So whomever votes libertarian or GOP spare me and skip it.

In evolution, in other species ecosystems we see diversity, so to think economics should be monochromatic is absurd. We also see in other species that when there is balance in the ecosystem there is more order and less conflict. Again, economies should not be treated any differently. You have too much of a gap in access to resources even with in the same species you will see more fighting over those resources.

1. Less rules.....no rules......we know what we are doing.

Sounds nice, but that does not take into account that all aspects of life. The people who make this their blanket solution rightfully see the abuse of one party states, or theocracies. Both forms of fascism. They are right to condemn them.

Money runs the world, lets not pretend it does not. Where their logic fails is that there is not one political or religious entity that we would call fascist and our enemy that does not own investments in the global market. It is a myth that the private sector is only used by open states. The difference between closed states and open states is who controls the market, but everyone is involved in the global market, open or closed states.

The Saudi Royal Family owns oil companies, banks and invests in the global market. Hardly a bastion of religious or political pluralism. Gaddaffie was a billionaire who owned stock in GE. China's one party state has plenty of western businesses in it that the party uses to make money to keep their one party state. The free market DOES NOT by itself constitute pluralism. The market is global.

So now back to the United States. It is not tyranny to state that wages do not keep up with the cost of living. It is not fascist to state the fact that blacks and Latinos are still hurt ratio wise most by lack of livable wages. There are also poor suburban whites and rural whites who are hurting economically as well.

What is hurting America is the same thing that can cause disaster in other species and the ecosystems they live in. Balance. You can have political and economic diversity but you cannot have centralized power held by anyone, be it political, religious OR business. All those things are run by humans and all of them require money to maintain their power.

So it is not for me a CHE state nanny state North Korea solution. Nor is it a naive Ayn Rand Somalian "fuck you I got mine".

No one should begrudge others for their own personal desires. But you have to make sure in that inequity that does provide a drive, that it does not become a monopoly. It is the same monopoly that Gadaffi had, the same concentration of wealth North Korea has. It is a matter of who controls the the wealth, not open or closed.

So when liberals attack the 1% we are not attacking, or for most, we should not be attacking them to get rid of all wealth. It is more along the lines of the climate of their mentality. Liberals can and to point out to businesses that do the right thing and point out billionaires who do agree with liberals.

EVERYTHING boils down to economics and we all do better when more people can make ends meet. The only disagreement between the left and right is how we get to that point.

But the record over the past 30 years is not on the side of the right. It is clear that we have allowed businesses and big money to get most of what they want and the only thing it has produced in that time is subsidizing their tax breaks, their tax shelters, bubble after bubble that we end up paying for, exploding profits and exploding pay gap.

We don't want wealth to go away, but to claim it knows what is best for us misses the point that there is more than one class in society and that is all that liberals are saying.
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#2
RE: North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
We should make a game about the spellings of Gaddafi's name
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#3
RE: North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
(November 8, 2014 at 12:11 pm)DramaQueen Wrote: We should make a game about the spellings of Gaddafi's name

I don't think even he ever officially said how he spelled his name. Like Jon vs John. Who cares, he was a rich fascist dick who fucked over his population and I am not the slightest sad he is dead.

I only hope Libya can not repeat the same power grab crap and simply replace that asshole with another asshole. But unfortunately that might be the case.
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#4
RE: North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
This thread is incoherent.

BTW, not all libertarians or conservatives think that liberals want a communist state. You might have more success in changing minds by working with moderates, rather than assuming that those who disagree with you must be extremist.

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#5
RE: North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
(November 8, 2014 at 12:20 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: This thread is incoherent.

BTW, not all libertarians or conservatives think that liberals want a communist state. You might have more success in changing minds by working with moderates, rather than assuming that those who disagree with you must be extremist.

Good, then accept that we do have big money bulling the other two classes. You do not address wages, and you continue that gap then you are no different than allowing the same conditions that lead to Libya. The same class gap that caused the Russian revolution that lead to Stalin.

What you cannot do is presume that because you own a business that you know what is best for everyone else.

The easiest way to get more of what you want is to invest more here, invest in better wages here. Billionaire Nick Hanauer has said that he does not create jobs. He has said that no business owner will hire someone unless demand forces them to. The bulk of society is made up by workers in the middle class and poor. The workers create the demand so when they do better business does better.

You do that on your own, then those workers wont be forced to go to government to ask for help. But if you dont, those same workers have the right to compete for laws and to make laws to protect their interests as well. Again, that is not demanding wealth go away, but a statement of fact that there are 3 classes that vote not one.
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#6
RE: North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
(November 8, 2014 at 12:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(November 8, 2014 at 12:20 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: This thread is incoherent.

BTW, not all libertarians or conservatives think that liberals want a communist state. You might have more success in changing minds by working with moderates, rather than assuming that those who disagree with you must be extremist.

Good, then accept that we do have big money bulling the other two classes. You do not address wages, and you continue that gap then you are no different than allowing the same conditions that lead to Libya. The same class gap that caused the Russian revolution that lead to Stalin.

What you cannot do is presume that because you own a business that you know what is best for everyone else.

The easiest way to get more of what you want is to invest more here, invest in better wages here. Billionaire Nick Hanauer has said that he does not create jobs. He has said that no business owner will hire someone unless demand forces them to. The bulk of society is made up by workers in the middle class and poor. The workers create the demand so when they do better business does better.

You do that on your own, then those workers wont be forced to go to government to ask for help. But if you dont, those same workers have the right to compete for laws and to make laws to protect their interests as well. Again, that is not demanding wealth go away, but a statement of fact that there are 3 classes that vote not one.

If you look in DeistPaladin's thread called "Bad News with a Silver Lining", you'll see that I'm arguing the case that the widening income gap is dangerous to our country.

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#7
RE: North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
I'm sorry but if you are making the same case I am if you think trusting the private sector after everything it has done over the past 30 years in getting most of what it has wanted, by removing more regulations that magically the private sector will will do the right thing on it's own is patently absurd. Libertarians are nothing but republicans on steroids.

Sorry, it is simply even a worse argument to justify more greed and exploitation.
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#8
RE: North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
Can someone stupidify this for me. I don't understand anything (other than budgeting, it's common sense) about economy

Convince me
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#9
RE: North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
(November 8, 2014 at 12:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: The easiest way to get more of what you want is to invest more here, invest in better wages here. Billionaire Nick Hanauer has said that he does not create jobs. He has said that no business owner will hire someone unless demand forces them to. The bulk of society is made up by workers in the middle class and poor. The workers create the demand so when they do better business does better.

Creating jobs is easy. Make it a law that all public roads have to be built using only spoons and no heavy equipment. To build a freeway, you would have to employ hundreds of thousands of workers.

But jobs don't make people better off. Stuff makes people better off. Automation is making it so less people are needed to make the stuff we want. The inevitable situation I see coming is a necessity to redistribute the tools by which we exchange goods an services. That tool being money.

That redistribution is going to happen one way or another. They road we are on is one where there is a massive government bureaucracy controlling our lives. The one I would like to see is the elimination of government bureacucracy and the ragbag of government programs, safety nets,t etc...to be replaced by a simple universal basic income.
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#10
RE: North Korea releases 2 more prisoners.
What is really funny is over the past few days republican voters and libertarian voters on twitter have admitted to me that companies like Walmart and McDonnalds are bad business models and hurt small businesses. Yet these same people vote for the same wealth that props them up. NO these were not liberals these were people using "burger flipper" as a pejorative.
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