How much do Christians really believe?

[Watson]

Watson said: "Unfortunately, that's the trap a good number of Fundamentalist Christians fall into. Being a fundie of any kind is never a healthy road to take."

I totally see that now, and have come to realize over the years that anything taken to the extreme can be mentally and psychologically damaging in the long run. As an atheist though I have come to lose my fear of death and accept death for what it is. A fear of death in my view is irrational when everyone and every living organism experiences it.

Yep, we're all equal in death and there's no sense fearing it. Personally, I'm not afraid of death at all. It's a natural part of life and it must be dealt with at some time or another. Personally, I'm more concerned with what I'll be leaving behind and what I'm doing here in this life than what is going to happen after I die. When I die and go to Heaven, because I do believe in it, then I'll be returned to the people I love. It's as simple as that.

A good quote that I heard in relation to death:
"Death is always pointless...that's the point."

[chatpilot]

Watson I view death as the absence of life in a living organism. I don't believe in heaven nor hell and I don't look forward to an afterlife. I just try to make the most of this life and enjoy it to the fullest for as long as I am privileged enough to have it. But at the same time I am aware that life can be taken away from me at the blink of an eye. I have made it a point to not attach myself too much to the material things in this world.

[rjh4 is back]

Basing myself on my own personal feelings and experiences when I was a fundie, I can say that I too was afraid of death. I was always concerned about my eternal salvation and the question "If I died today would god find me worthy of inheriting a place in his kingdom?" Was all of my efforts in ministry, preaching, and gaining converts enough for me to warrant eternal salvation in Christ? I was overly concerned with everything I said and did and even thought. As soon as bad thoughts or inappropriate thoughts crept into my mind I was asking the lord for forgiveness and rebuking Satan all at once. That is why I always say that when I left the church it took me years to get over the fear of god. I dreaded the idea of spending eternity in hell which to me was as real as this world.

It seems from this post that your view of Christianity when you were a fundie was that somehow you had to do enough to please God in order to get to heaven. That somehow you could work your way into eternal salvation. I must say, that is not my view of Christianity nor do I think that is what the Bible teaches (although I know a lot of churches teach such things). I think the Biblical view of Christianity is that we can do nothing to merit eternal salvation. We are sinful creatures that could never meet God's standards so that our works would never be pleasing enough to God. That is why Jesus came and died for our sins (past, present, and future) in our place and offers eternal salvation to all that trust in Jesus and what He did. So all you need to do is trust in Jesus. As for good works, I think the Biblical view is that Christians should be doing good works because they are saved, not in order to be saved.

As for death, I do not fear it. While I look forward to heaven, it is God's prerogative when I go. So I will leave my death in His hands.

[Watson]

Watson I view death as the absence of life in a living organism. I don't believe in heaven nor hell and I don't look forward to an afterlife. I just try to make the most of this life and enjoy it to the fullest for as long as I am privileged enough to have it. But at the same time I am aware that life can be taken away from me at the blink of an eye. I have made it a point to not attach myself too much to the material things in this world.

I like this! You and I have basically the same view of life, except for the fact that ibelieve life is a gift from God and try to live my life accordingly. I am curious of one thing, however; you say you are privileged to have your life, but who or what exactly is there who will 'take' your privilege...?

The way I try to think of it is like this, and maybe this can help you understand the Christian point of view on it, so you don't think all of us are 'afraid of dying.'

Imagine if you were given a beautiful, hand-crafted flute by someone you cared deeply for(in this case, God.) You have all the capabilities and skills required to play the flute, and then...you let it sit on a shelf and do nothing with it. That doesn't seem a very good way to honor your loved one, does it? Play the flute, in whatever way you wish! The person who gave it to you will surely be happy.

When the flute finally wears out, as all flutes do(for the sake of this story at least), be happy that your loved one gave you a flute at all.

[Purple Rabbit]

When it comes to loved ones dying, yes, there's no real reason to be sad because the person is in a better place now and is waiting for you to come be with them. However, that doesn't stop us from missing them when they go. Christians celebrate what was shared in life with that person, and try not to focus on "they're dead now".

Mourn the living, not the dead.

So the earthquake was a gift from god?

[Samson]

Absolutely not. You may feel I do things to get a reward or out of feaar, but you're wrong. I worship God because I'm grateful for his gifts. Just as I'm thankful for my real father for all he has taught and given me. It's dutiful respect and humility not selfishness. You're speaking from ignorance and that's not usual for you from what I've seen. I don't mock fundies and I don't mock atheists, or anyone when I can help it. I may have poked back a little when poked but never to my recollection, out of hatefullness. I haven't been anywhere near as flip-flop as you're asserting, nor do I even subscribe to the literal hell the Bible teaches in vivid imagery.

I never stated that you were a Fundie....Just that your belief simply states..."You believe in God or you go to hell".....

I apologize if you thought I was looping you in with the extremist... Just by you still posting on an Atheist site shows a bit of the non-typical Christian...(Just as your brother Fr0d0...lol.. ) (There's my pocking)...

[Watson]

When it comes to loved ones dying, yes, there's no real reason to be sad because the person is in a better place now and is waiting for you to come be with them. However, that doesn't stop us from missing them when they go. Christians celebrate what was shared in life with that person, and try not to focus on "they're dead now".

Mourn the living, not the dead.

So the earthquake was a gift from god?

I love this one. Heard it so many times.

Let God deal with death, that's his thing. You deal with life. That's your gift.

[Welsh cake]

This could be aimed at all religious people but especially Christians. Basically if there is a heaven then why is anybody Christian afraid of death? Not just this but why would anybody want to keep themselves alive and really make an effort in this life if they honestly believe that they are going to a better place when they die? Surely it makes no sense at all to want to cling on to life or even really value it that much in this world if this world is so much more inferior to the next world.

This to me suggests that deep down many Christians either know it is not true or are not as certain as they would make out. If I thought that I was going to heaven then I would be looking forward to that moment. If a relative of mine died I wouldn't be nearly as sad because I would know that are somewhere better and I will see them again.

Any thoughts?

Christians who are also Biblical literalists are aware in a sense, that they according to the scriptures have no absolute guarantee of eternal life with their loved ones in heaven:

Matthew 7:21 – 23

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

We are sinful creatures that could never meet God's standards so that our works would never be pleasing enough to God.

Speak for yourself. You and I are more moral than your God.

Let God deal with death, that's his thing. You deal with life. That's your gift.

Nice evasion, but even your apologetic sermons will appreciate the obvious fact that a gift snatched back isn't a gift at all.

By your own omission God's nothing more than a loan shark, one who always makes good on his threats of violence. >_>

[Watson]

Aaah, you misunderstand, however. If God is taking you in death to a new life, then he hasn't really taken his gift back at all, now has he?

Apologetic sermons? I beg your pardon?

That particular Bible passage says to me that, essentially, not everyone who just talks and walks 'God' and 'the Bible' will be admitted to Heaven for it.

[rjh4 is back]

We are sinful creatures that could never meet God's standards so that our works would never be pleasing enough to God.

Speak for yourself. You and I are more moral than your God.

So you are saying that your works are pleasing to God? On what would you base this? (No need to really respond to the questions because I do know what you were trying to say.)

Clearly I was providing a Biblical position and I do realize that any atheist would not agree with this.