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Obamacare written to deceive the public.
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 28, 2014 at 8:22 pm)Heywood Wrote:
(November 28, 2014 at 4:59 pm)rasetsu Wrote: And how does that solve the problem of people not being able to afford healthcare because they don't have insurance. Insurance is little more than a structured way of distributing risks across a class of people. If you pay for healthcare directly without that buffer, it ends up costing more for, I presume, the taxpayer, because you don't have a whole class of people contributing via insurance. You end up having to pay that cost by raising taxes. I don't see how that is an improvement.

Government produced health care would be free or at minimal cost to the recipient of that healthcare. It would drive down the cost of health care because the more there is of something, the cheaper it will be. The price of oil is dropping significantly because the Saudis are increasing their output to make the price so low that it becomes unprofitable to extract it from American shale.

If the price of health care is so high that it is not affordable to the average American the solution is to produce more of it. Obamacare does nothing to lower the cost of health care. It will actually make the cost go up by increasing demand for it. On top of that it will restrict supply because for many of the newly insured(medicaid), re-reimbursement rates are set by the government at artificially low prices.

Insurance is not just a way of distributing risk across a class of people. It is also a gambling transaction. Generally when you make a bet with an insurance company, your bet has a negative expected value and their bet has a positive expectation. The positive expected value ends up being the insurance companies gross margin. Under Obamacare, if an insurance company makes so many bad bets that it loses money, the government will re-reimburse them for their losses. Its like being able to spend a night at the casino and if you win...awesome. If you loose don't sweat it...the government will send you a check to cover your losses.

Obamacare is a shitty law because it does nothing to actually address the problem....health care is expensive. It merely covers it up with a very expensive bandaid. You will see the amount of money spent per capita on health care in the United States rise because of Obamacare.

So what you want is a British model NHS. Well I agree but the republicans would never let it happen.
It is too socialistic and that would never do for those money centred people.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








Reply
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
Yes, and Republicans are correct about HMOs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QkgUkM0o6Q
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan
Professional Watcher of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report!
Reply
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 30, 2014 at 1:22 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: So what you want is a British model NHS. Well I agree but the republicans would never let it happen.
It is too socialistic and that would never do for those money centred people.

The democrats would not let this happen either as it takes away business from their fat cat friends in the health insurance industry.
Reply
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 30, 2014 at 1:56 pm)Heywood Wrote: The democrats would not let this happen either as it takes away business from their fat cat friends in the health insurance industry.

True to a lesser extent. From a distance the corporate lackys are the republicans more than the democrats.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








Reply
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 30, 2014 at 3:36 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(November 30, 2014 at 1:56 pm)Heywood Wrote: The democrats would not let this happen either as it takes away business from their fat cat friends in the health insurance industry.

True to a lesser extent. From a distance the corporate lackys are the republicans more than the democrats.

I disagree. A corporate lacky is a lacky.

What is sad is we would probably have had a NHS like the UK were it not for a government intervention. During WWII labor was in high demand in the country. Consequently the price of it was going thru the roof. The government put a cap on wages. Since businesses could no longer entice laborers to come work for them with higher wages they started to offer fringe benefits...like private health insurance.

60 years later we had a chance to change it....but the Obama and democrats squandered it...and now our crappy system is going to be more entrenched than ever. If they couldn't pass proper health care reform....we really would be better off today if they didn't pass anything at all.
Reply
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 30, 2014 at 11:19 am)Heywood Wrote: The reason the insurance companies make profits is because their side of the bet usually has a positive expected value. The customer generally has a negative expected value. Obama basically forced most Americans to make a bad bet with an insurance company. I think intuitively people realize this on some level which is why they dislike Obamacare.

What negative expected value? I call bullshit.
Reply
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 30, 2014 at 4:19 pm)Surgenator Wrote:
(November 30, 2014 at 11:19 am)Heywood Wrote: The reason the insurance companies make profits is because their side of the bet usually has a positive expected value. The customer generally has a negative expected value. Obama basically forced most Americans to make a bad bet with an insurance company. I think intuitively people realize this on some level which is why they dislike Obamacare.

What negative expected value? I call bullshit.

The insurers have a positive expected value. The insured have a negative expected value. This is my claim and your link supports it. By structuring our healthcare system this way Obamacare codifies into law the screwing of the American people.

It didn't have to be this way.
Reply
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
Yes, insurers are about maximizing profits. The best way is to deny everything, and if you are covered for a big ticket item, you will be dropped at the end. They only want people that never get sick.
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan
Professional Watcher of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report!
Reply
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(December 2, 2014 at 11:39 am)Heywood Wrote:
(November 30, 2014 at 4:19 pm)Surgenator Wrote: What negative expected value? I call bullshit.

The insurers have a positive expected value. The insured have a negative expected value. This is my claim and your link supports it. By structuring our healthcare system this way Obamacare codifies into law the screwing of the American people.
When does anyone expect to have a positive expected value when buying insurance? When you buy a house, do you complain about morgage companies telling you to pay more than the house is worth? When buying a car, do you complain to the dealer that your paying him more than the car is worth?

Quote:It didn't have to be this way.
A possible better law does NOT mean Obamacare is a disaster.
Reply



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