If

[Brian37]

So seeing a dog statue is enough reason for worship?
Or does it need to be in a temple to be adorable.

Time always cause changes especially after few thousand years.
Do the so called Buddhists follow what Buddha said?
Do the so called Christians follow what Christ said.
Of course not.
Nobody really follow the original message that is why spirituality turned into religion.
I can understand that Buddha or Christ or almost anybody else wouldn't wanted to see their images worship.
They rather wished that people coming later on follow the same spirituality that they were teaching but nothing really go according anyone plane.
It never happen it never will that is why after 3 or so thousand of years most people turn spirituality into a religion of worship with some exceptions.
Your lack of vision need to be sorted out mate.

---

I would kick this god in the nuts for all the fucked up crap it allowed.

So you are telling us that God is responsible for everybody suffereing?
And the evidence is.......?

---

Atheist (generally speaking) don't say that. We say science is the best method we know of at acquiring truth.

How stupid are these doctors.
Studying years and years for acquiring nothing.

As pocaracas already pointed out, doctors don't prove a person is dead. How do you know the person's memory wasn't created before their "death" or during their resuscitate? You claim it has to be when the person is dead. Where is your evidence thats when the memories were created? Please provide me with that evidence.

That is funny how most people after their NDE avoid eating meat.

A thousand NOT NDE's guys get the same experience from undergoing high G's. How about that the experiences depends on the person's culture & religious beliefs, i.e. Xtians see Christ, Hindu's see Vishnu, etc...

Your kids may like to ply with different toys.
One like this one like that.
Why not let them ply with what they like most?

So you having a statue automatically means you worship it? Do you think gardeners worship gnomes? The Buddha is their end goal, not their god. It reminds them what they should be striving for.

How many Buddhists have you interview to know what they think about Buddha?

Um no, I am not the one making any claim that a god exists. Now unless someone is making up some sort of new god with limited powers, I am addressing a CLAIM, not a reality.

If one is going to claim an all powerful god, it is absurd to try to dodge the claim that it started everything.

I am blasting the concept of the claim, as in "if" as the title of the thread asks. Yes I would kick such a fucker in the nuts. That would be the behavior of a deadbeat, or malevolent being.

Would you hire a baby sitter who behaved like that? Would you trust a cop or security guard with such a spotty selective attitude?

God as commonly claimed is a broken concept, the logic of it is absurd as a CLAIM. The only way anyone can swallow such a crappy claim is to ignore their own selection bias and sample rate error.

[robvalue]

I'd start off with "hello" and kind of go from there.

If it starts quizzing me about why I didnt realize whatever this God is existed, I'd say there was no good evidence. If he wants to hit me or put me in the naughty room after that, I probably can't do much about it.

[Aoi Magi]

Well first off I would ask "Who art thou? And what art thou doing in MY dream?"

[Little Rik]

So doctors not proving someone is dead automatically acquired no knowledge. You should consider how stupid that sounds. If a doctor sees that there is no heartbeat and fails to resuscitate the patient, 99.99% of the time is because the patient is dead. You're bringing up rare cases of where doctors were wrong, and then claim they don't know anything.

You didn't get my irony didn't you surgen?

Provide your source for this claim.

When you got sometime go through as many NDEs as you can in the link that i already gave
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/NDERF_NDEs.htm

.....and click on the name of those persons who had an NDE to see in details.

So your tactic is to completely ignoring the point, and spouting gibberish.

I already explained how according to me the system works in case of an NDE.
God let you believe whatever you like so if you are a Christian or a Buddhist or belong to any other denomination he will let you see the divinity or your belief in Him.
But God doesn't have a body figure so at the end it doesn't really matter what it is the figure.
You automatically know that that figure is God.

You should know there is a difference between what the doctrine says, and what people actually do. I'm arguing about what the Buddhist doctrine says. The doctrine says that the end goal of Buddhist is to remove oneself from wants.

I agree that Buddha philosophy say that.
All i am telling you is that probably less than 1% of the so called Buddhists follow in a practical way that philosophy.
I travel a lot in Thailand, Singapore and Hong kong and i see what Buddhist do and i often talk to them that is why i can say that almost nobody follow Buddha philosophy.
I have seen Buddhists monks smoking and eating meat.
How the hell can you remove yourself from wants when in fact you carry on with the most crude and unhealthy practices?

---

I'd start off with "hello" and kind of go from there.

If it starts quizzing me about why I didnt realize whatever this God is existed, I'd say there was no good evidence. If he wants to hit me or put me in the naughty room after that, I probably can't do much about it.

IF i would be God i wouldn't even allow you to see Him nor i would not punish you.
After all if you are not a criminal and karma law doesn't apply to you why should you be punished?
All i would do is to give you as many more reincarnation as it is needed to make you reach the point of understand how the system work and finally understanding that God exist but again i am no God so everything is possible.

---

God as commonly claimed is a broken concept...............

That is one of the problem Brian.
Religions for far too long have claimed this and that while yoga let you work out how the system works so instead of being told, you just work that out by yourself.

[abaris]

When you got sometime go through as many NDEs as you can in the link that i already gave
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/NDERF_NDEs.htm

.....and click on the name of those persons who had an NDE to see in details.

Let me get this straight. You dismiss all the input of scientist reasearch on NDEs with the wave of a hand, but present individual accounts as evidence of an afterlife.

[Brian37]

So doctors not proving someone is dead automatically acquired no knowledge. You should consider how stupid that sounds. If a doctor sees that there is no heartbeat and fails to resuscitate the patient, 99.99% of the time is because the patient is dead. You're bringing up rare cases of where doctors were wrong, and then claim they don't know anything.

You didn't get my irony didn't you surgen?

Provide your source for this claim.

When you got sometime go through as many NDEs as you can in the link that i already gave
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/NDERF_NDEs.htm

.....and click on the name of those persons who had an NDE to see in details.

So your tactic is to completely ignoring the point, and spouting gibberish.

I already explained how according to me the system works in case of an NDE.
God let you believe whatever you like so if you are a Christian or a Buddhist or belong to any other denomination he will let you see the divinity or your belief in Him.
But God doesn't have a body figure so at the end it doesn't really matter what it is the figure.
You automatically know that that figure is God.

You should know there is a difference between what the doctrine says, and what people actually do. I'm arguing about what the Buddhist doctrine says. The doctrine says that the end goal of Buddhist is to remove oneself from wants.

I agree that Buddha philosophy say that.
All i am telling you is that probably less than 1% of the so called Buddhists follow in a practical way that philosophy.
I travel a lot in Thailand, Singapore and Hong kong and i see what Buddhist do and i often talk to them that is why i can say that almost nobody follow Buddha philosophy.
I have seen Buddhists monks smoking and eating meat.
How the hell can you remove yourself from wants when in fact you carry on with the most crude and unhealthy practices?

---

I'd start off with "hello" and kind of go from there.

If it starts quizzing me about why I didnt realize whatever this God is existed, I'd say there was no good evidence. If he wants to hit me or put me in the naughty room after that, I probably can't do much about it.

IF i would be God i wouldn't even allow you to see Him nor i would not punish you.
After all if you are not a criminal and karma law doesn't apply to you why should you be punished?
All i would do is to give you as many more reincarnation as it is needed to make you reach the point of understand how the system work and finally understanding that God exist but again i am no God so everything is possible.

---

God as commonly claimed is a broken concept...............

That is one of the problem Brian.
Religions for far too long have claimed this and that while yoga let you work out how the system works so instead of being told, you just work that out by yourself.

Stop it, the three letters g and o and d that make up the word God and god, are meaningless words that people keep in their head and assign their own attributes to.

Humans make up gods, gods are not real. And as the "lets pretend for argument's sake" as indicated by the "If" question would still not change my attitude towards such a character.

There has never been or ever will be such a thing as a not material magical super brain with super powers. God is no more real than superman or Thor or unicorns.

Your splitting the baby mentality is coming from your empathy and sense of fairness. It has nothing at all to do with the reality that humans make up gods. The concepts are merely a placebo humans construct and falsely believe in because that is easier than accepting our finite reality.

Now the easiest way anyone thinking even the thought "there might be" is more than welcome to take their claim into a lab, get it tested and falsified and independently peer reviewed and beat everyone to the patent office. But do not ask me to hold my breath or do their homework for them.

There is nothing magical about life and there is no need or reason at all to insert what is in reality, a projection of human's desires and fears out of ignorance of reality, into science to explain anything.

The universe does not give one crap about our species history of god claims, it was around long before and after our planet and sun dies, it will continue and there will be no record of our species childish superstitions.

I am sorry if it bothers you or anyone here that reality is offensive to you. Too bad. Science does not care if you accept it or not.

[Surgenator]

You didn't get my irony didn't you surgen?

What was your point then?

Provide your source for this claim.

When you got sometime go through as many NDEs as you can in the link that i already gave
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/NDERF_NDEs.htm

.....and click on the name of those persons who had an NDE to see in details.

Your evidence is testimonials. Testimonials are the worst kind of "evidence" because the pateints don't know the cause, the time of the cause, are suggestable, etc... You have to better than that to convince someone. There is actual research done on NDE's that you seem to ignoring.

So your tactic is to completely ignoring the point, and spouting gibberish.

I already explained how according to me the system works in case of an NDE.
God let you believe whatever you like so if you are a Christian or a Buddhist or belong to any other denomination he will let you see the divinity or your belief in Him.
But God doesn't have a body figure so at the end it doesn't really matter what it is the figure.
You automatically know that that figure is God.

So now the tactic is ignore the countering evidence and live in your lala land.

You should know there is a difference between what the doctrine says, and what people actually do. I'm arguing about what the Buddhist doctrine says. The doctrine says that the end goal of Buddhist is to remove oneself from wants.

I agree that Buddha philosophy say that.
All i am telling you is that probably less than 1% of the so called Buddhists follow in a practical way that philosophy.
I travel a lot in Thailand, Singapore and Hong kong and i see what Buddhist do and i often talk to them that is why i can say that almost nobody follow Buddha philosophy.
I have seen Buddhists monks smoking and eating meat.
How the hell can you remove yourself from wants when in fact you carry on with the most crude and unhealthy practices?

It doesn't matter how many people follow exactly what Buddha says. The Buddhist religion says the ultimate goal is to rid oneself of wants. It's all internally focused. So your imaginary seperation between spiritualism is internal and religion is external is bullshit.

[Astrogod07]

If I die and find myself standing before a god, my exact response will be dictated by what kind of god it is. If I find out that we are the result of a cosmic experiment in evolution or some kind of complex simulation, then I would think that's pretty awesome.

If I find out that I was wrong and the Christian god really does exist, then it will not change my opinion that he is an asshole and an idiot if he expects us to be able to deduce his specific existence from one crappy book, and expects us to love him above all else because he commands us to do so. If that god exists, he's a prick and he knows it, and I will not put lipstick on a pig and kiss his ass to try to earn brownie points in the afterlife. At that point, he's gonna do with me whatever he pleases and if my beliefs really determine my eternal fate, then that's on god, not me, and it just goes to prove my point that he's an asshole

My assumption is that if there is some being that has the power or technological ability to create our universe, they're smart enough to have realistic expectations. If we have creators, there is no way that they are stupid enough or unreasonable enough to give two shits what we would think about them.

[robvalue]

Worship me tiny man! Worship me! I made you specifically to worship me, and coded you so you definitely would worship me!

Why isn't he worshiping me?

Because I also gave him free will! Why did I do that again? I just wanted worship This isn't as easy as it looks you know.

[Little Rik]

When you got sometime go through as many NDEs as you can in the link that i already gave
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/NDERF_NDEs.htm

.....and click on the name of those persons who had an NDE to see in details.

Let me get this straight. You dismiss all the input of scientist reasearch on NDEs with the wave of a hand, but present individual accounts as evidence of an afterlife.

I already deal with this question several times.
Physical science is not in a position to leave the corral of physicality and go over the fence into higher degree of consciousness.
Only after practicing the intuitional science that allow them to go over the border-fence then they will be able to understand how the system works.

---

Stop it, the three letters g and o and d that make up the word God and god, are meaningless words that people keep in their head and assign their own attributes to. Humans make up gods, gods are not real. And as the "lets pretend for argument's sake" as indicated by the "If" question would still not change my attitude towards such a character. There has never been or ever will be such a thing as a not material magical super brain with super powers. God is no more real than superman or Thor or unicorns. Your splitting the baby mentality is coming from your empathy and sense of fairness. It has nothing at all to do with the reality that humans make up gods. The concepts are merely a placebo humans construct and falsely believe in because that is easier than accepting our finite reality. Now the easiest way anyone thinking even the thought "there might be" is more than welcome to take their claim into a lab, get it tested and falsified and independently peer reviewed and beat everyone to the patent office. But do not ask me to hold my breath or do their homework for them. There is nothing magical about life and there is no need or reason at all to insert what is in reality, a projection of human's desires and fears out of ignorance of reality, into science to explain anything.
The universe does not give one crap about our species history of god claims, it was around long before and after our planet and sun dies, it will continue and there will be no record of our species childish superstitions. I am sorry if it bothers you or anyone here that reality is offensive to you. Too bad. Science does not care if you accept it or not.

Brian, you just remind me of that guy that after buying a tv try to see the picture without first connecting the tv to an antenna.
In the air there are a myriad of sound and vibration that carry a meaningful message but unless you get connected you will have no chances to perceive anything.
God presence is there all the time.
The problem however is getting connected.
As simple as that.

---

What was your point then?

I pretend that the doctors are a bunch of idiots when in fact they know very well when someone is dead.
This in reply to someone that believe in physical science but for his own interest does not believe in doctors which are specialists in medical science.

Your evidence is testimonials. Testimonials are the worst kind of "evidence" because the pateints don't know the cause, the time of the cause, are suggestable, etc... You have to better than that to convince someone. There is actual research done on NDE's that you seem to ignoring.

If what you say make any sense then the NDEs would be all different and would contradict each other but they don't.
They all end up in the same place so it is your idea that doesn't make any sense.

So now the tactic is ignore the countering evidence and live in your lala land.

Let us hear your counter evidence.

It doesn't matter how many people follow exactly what Buddha says. The Buddhist religion says the ultimate goal is to rid oneself of wants. It's all internally focused. So your imaginary seperation between spiritualism is internal and religion is external is bullshit.

If 99% of the so called Buddhists would follow what Buddha say then i would say that Buddhism is spirituality but as i know it is only less then 1% that follow what Buddha said that is why i can say that today Buddhism is religion.