If

[Surgenator]

As far as the brain in concerned, it doesn't know the difference. So it response is the same.

Here we go again.
As usual you judge from a physical point of view alone but humans are not made of physicality only.
Mind and spirit are also part of ourselves.
Every single part of ourselves require a response.
No wonder that physical science has yet to find out where peace of mind may come from.
It is only when you guys take in consideration all parts of the human being that you will be able to understand how the system works.
It remind me the meat.
Animals before they get closer to the abattoir have no toxins in their body but as they enter the abattoir and smell the blood and the tragic situation they build up these toxins so their flesh become toxic.
In the same way our consciousness knows what is a natural occurrence and what is not and from there we will have a different response so no.
Every action will have a particular reaction based on the circumstances and the motives.

Restating your position or your theory doesn't make it more believable. You need good evidence to make it more believalbe, and the evidence you presented is still crap. Hense your theory is not valid. Also, analogies are not proofs nor evidence.

2) It is important to consider the quantity of loss blood to the brain.
Does the loss of blood supply to the brain in high G forces experiences equal to the loss of blood in a natural situation of flat-lined" EEG state?

Good question. Lommel doesn't give numbers on how much blood is lost. So I can't do a comparison. I did find this. "At some point, intracranial perfusion cannot be maintained and significant cerebral hypoxia (no blood = no oxygen) follows. The end result is unconsciousness. ... most significant physiologic effect from G-forces are related to tissue ischemia (insufficient blood flow), specifically intracerebral (brain) ischemia." Do NDE patients suffer from tissue ischemia?

I wish i had all the medical knowledge of Lommel.
What i know is that every single case is different.
Different people before their NDE die for different reasons so their PHYSICAL reactions will be different.

If you want medical knowledge, go to college and study it. While your at it, you should take a basic statistics and science course. Maybe you'll realize that the null hypothesis is always something we know about, never something new.

In these pages you can see more interesting things from Lommel.
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=FMZ...ia&f=false

Testinomials are not scientific evidence. Just like the alien abduction testinomials, listing more doesn't prove your claims.

As Lommel say......The current concept in medical science states that consciousness is the product of the brain. This concept, however, has never been scientifically proven.......

True it has never been proven, but there is a strong correlation between the two. Also, just because it wasn't proven, doesn't mean Lommel hypothesis is equally or more valid.

The pituary gland that control the mind is below the pineal gland.

Look up the pituitary gland and only found the hormone controller not control room of the mind. Unless you think our mind is nothing but hormones, then it would the control room of the mind. Somehow the electrical pulses in neurons and their arrangement with one another plays a big role.

In the same way the general is ranking below the field marshal so how it is possible that the lower gland can control the higher?

You really don't know how the brain evolved do you? If you did, the answer would become quite obvious.

Consciousness is well above the mind so the mind can not produce the consciousness.

Restating your position and theories doesn't make them more believable.

But again it is clear that some of these NDEs experiences can not be the result of the brain like in the case where it was witness places or people that could not be witness with the mind.

Bullshit. How do you know these people haven't seen pictures, heard stories, or their memory was altered afterwards? This is the huge problem with testinomials, and why they're not considered scientific evidence.

In the case in which the NDE saw the nurse dropping a baby the event happen during the NDE not before and his testimonial lead to the evidence that this incident really happen and as i said happen during the NDE so no this has nothing to do with an altered mind.

How do you know that is when the NDE occured? How do you know the baby dropped wasn't incorporated into the NDE memory afterwards? The simple answer is you don't. You assumed it was the case.

The brain can not do this so the conclusion is that the consciousness can not possibly be the product of the brain as the brain is not able to see behind closed doors. Cheers.

You know what the brain can't do and what it can? Are you a neuroscientist? Are you possibly forgetting that people also have ears? Are you aware that rooms in the hospital are designed the same? Not seeing room 105 doesn't mean you didn't see room 355.

Sorry surgen but the report say that the guy that had an NDE was in the emergency room while the next room was not an emergency room.
Beside he described what was in the room so no again.
You try your best to be a good detective but you are not clever enough.
You probably need a good NDE to get clever.

Do you know that the person has never been in that hospital? Do you know the person has never seen the other room while he was in the waiting room? Do you know that he didn't incorporated the NDE with the waiting room afterwards? There are too many other normal everyday events that can easily explain this. However, you jump to the supernatural explanation as if it were more valid.

[Little Rik]

land.
In the same way the general is ranking below the field marshal so how it is possible that the lower gland can control the higher?
Consciousness is well above the mind so the mind can not produce the consciousness.

So, basically, you're saying consciousness cannot be a product of the mind/brain because it out ranks them? I am speechless.

Long time ago many people became speechless to learn that the planet earth was not the center of the universe.
They dreams were shattered.
According to yoga the pineal gland is at the very top of the spinal cord for a reason.
It control all the rest.
But i am sure that when the science that you guys believe in will understand the role of the pineal gland also the dreams of atheists will be shattered.
We will see.

7 has always be an important number.
Earth, water, light, air, space, mind, spirit and 7 are the glands that control these elements but it is much better that the science that you believe in will give you the bad news so i want go any further.

[pocaracas]

7 has always be an important number.
Earth, water, light, air, space, mind, spirit

You forgot fire, earth, electricity, ice, magnetism, plasma, wood and sound... just to name a few.
And then you have all the magical powers.... toooo many to list!

[Tonus]

But i am sure that when the science that you guys believe in will understand the role of the pineal gland also the dreams of atheists will be shattered.

That would be a first. To date, anything that scientists have come to understand does not support any of the mystical and supernatural explanations that were made up by "intuitional science." Hundreds of years. Potentially tens of thousands of discoveries. All of them having natural explanations, none of them attributed to woo.

But you keep on trusting that intuitional science, buddy!

[Little Rik]

Restating your position or your theory doesn't make it more believable. You need good evidence to make it more believalbe, and the evidence you presented is still crap. Hense your theory is not valid. Also, analogies are not proofs nor evidence.

You came down with the statement that there is no difference when i said that..........................There are differences between a natural loss of blood supply to the brain and one induced loss.
You present no evidences to back up your statement and yet you pretend evidences from me.
Sorry surgen but beside being far too cocky you also fail badly in understanding how the system works.
If you don't take in consideration all elements like mind and consciousness it is obvious that your statements are all hot air.

If you want medical knowledge, go to college and study it. While your at it, you should take a basic statistics and science course. Maybe you'll realize that the null hypothesis is always something we know about, never something new.

Since i awake the spirituality within i realize that the best way to proceed is to have a proper balance among body-mind and spirit.
If i would have spent half of my life studying medicine i would have neglected all the rest and i wouldn't be able to proceed straight toward the goal of life.
There are people who are interested in more physical matters.
It is up to them to sort out their priorities in life.

Testinomials are not scientific evidence. Just like the alien abduction testinomials, listing more doesn't prove your claims.

When testimonials come from qualified people i always take them in due consideration although they may not prove a claim.

The pituary gland that control the mind is below the pineal gland.

Look up the pituitary gland and only found the hormone controller not control room of the mind. Unless you think our mind is nothing but hormones, then it would the control room of the mind. Somehow the electrical pulses in neurons and their arrangement with one another plays a big role.

It is understandable that physical science can understand the physicality of the gland.
And it is understandable that anyone studying the gland from a physical point of view ONLY come to the conclusion that the gland is only related to physical manifestation.
What new after all!
What yoga discovered thousand years ago physical science has yet to discover but again sooner or later this science will understand who control the mind.

You really don't know how the brain evolved do you?[/url] If you did, the answer would become quite obvious.

What the evolution of the brain has to do with what i am saying only God knows.

Restating your position and theories doesn't make them more believable.

So if my theory is faulty then we can say that the gland that control the matter and the excrements may also control the mind and everything is then up for grab so to speak.
You are very funny surgen.

In the case in which the NDE saw the nurse dropping a baby the event happen during the NDE not before and his testimonial lead to the evidence that this incident really happen and as i said happen during the NDE so no this has nothing to do with an altered mind.

How do you know that is when the NDE occured? How do you know the baby dropped wasn't incorporated into the NDE memory afterwards? The simple answer is you don't. You assumed it was the case.

Thousand of testimonials that come to the same conclusion are no evidence.
They must all be dreaming.

Do you know that the person has never been in that hospital? Do you know the person has never seen the other room while he was in the waiting room? Do you know that he didn't incorporated the NDE with the waiting room afterwards? There are too many other normal everyday events that can easily explain this. However, you jump to the supernatural explanation as if it were more valid.

Thousand of people who went through an NDE described their experiences in a calm and serene way not as people who had an LSD or mushroom trip.
Why should they lie?
Do they make money by lying, or they become famous by lying?
I am not the one who jump to supernatural explanations.
All of them experienced the supernatural so there got to be something real in it.
If on top of that their understanding of the system go hand in hand with my experiences in spirituality then why not.

---

7 has always be an important number.
Earth, water, light, air, space, mind, spirit

You forgot fire, earth, electricity, ice, magnetism, plasma, wood and sound... just to name a few.
And then you have all the magical powers.... toooo many to list!

Actually it is not me that forgot something.
Fire is energy and also electricity is energy so they all come under the light fundamental element.
The same thing apply for plasma which come under the matter or earth element.
Every other element that you mention come also under one of the 7 fundamental elements.
You remind me of someone who said that with the heat it is not possible to generate cold like the cold in a fridge.
All elements are up for transformation so everything is possible.

---

But i am sure that when the science that you guys believe in will understand the role of the pineal gland also the dreams of atheists will be shattered.

That would be a first. To date, anything that scientists have come to understand does not support any of the mystical and supernatural explanations that were made up by "intuitional science." Hundreds of years. Potentially tens of thousands of discoveries. All of them having natural explanations, none of them attributed to woo.
But you keep on trusting that intuitional science, buddy!

When i need to fix my plumbing i call a plumber not a carpenter so it is obvious that physical science has never been able to understand the mystical and supernatural.
How can they when it is outside their competence?

[pocaracas]

You forgot fire, earth, electricity, ice, magnetism, plasma, wood and sound... just to name a few.
And then you have all the magical powers.... toooo many to list!

Actually it is not me that forgot something.
Fire is energy and also electricity is energy so they all come under the light fundamental element.
The same thing apply for plasma which come under the matter or earth element.
Every other element that you mention come also under one of the 7 fundamental elements.
You remind me of someone who said that with the heat it is not possible to generate cold like the cold in a fridge.
All elements are up for transformation so everything is possible.

LOL!
Really, LOL!
I knew there was a reason I kept myself from trying to get anything through to you...
Laughter is all I can do, now.

[robvalue]

I looked up spirituality in the dictionary, and it said, "No fucking idea mate".

[Surgenator]

Restating your position or your theory doesn't make it more believable. You need good evidence to make it more believalbe, and the evidence you presented is still crap. Hense your theory is not valid. Also, analogies are not proofs nor evidence.

You came down with the statement that there is no difference when i said that..........................There are differences between a natural loss of blood supply to the brain and one induced loss.
You present no evidences to back up your statement and yet you pretend evidences from me.
Sorry surgen but beside being far too cocky you also fail badly in understanding how the system works.
If you don't take in consideration all elements like mind and consciousness it is obvious that your statements are all hot air.

In either case, natural or induced, circulation stops. Oxygen and other neutrients are no longer being supplied to the brain. How is the brain suppose to know that it is induced or not?

If you want medical knowledge, go to college and study it. While your at it, you should take a basic statistics and science course. Maybe you'll realize that the null hypothesis is always something we know about, never something new.

Since i awake the spirituality within i realize that the best way to proceed is to have a proper balance among body-mind and spirit.
If i would have spent half of my life studying medicine i would have neglected all the rest and i wouldn't be able to proceed straight toward the goal of life.
There are people who are interested in more physical matters.
It is up to them to sort out their priorities in life.

Then it seems that you will never have the medical knowledge you wished. At least you do have a specialty, wishful thinking.

Testinomials are not scientific evidence. Just like the alien abduction testinomials, listing more doesn't prove your claims.

When testimonials come from qualified people i always take them in due consideration although they may not prove a claim.

LOL. Nobody is qualified. Do you know why? Because you lie the best to yourself. Hense, you cannot trust yourself to determine what is objectively true.

The pituary gland that control the mind is below the pineal gland.

Look up the pituitary gland and only found the hormone controller not control room of the mind. Unless you think our mind is nothing but hormones, then it would the control room of the mind. Somehow the electrical pulses in neurons and their arrangement with one another plays a big role.

It is understandable that physical science can understand the physicality of the gland.
And it is understandable that anyone studying the gland from a physical point of view ONLY come to the conclusion that the gland is only related to physical manifestation.
What new after all!
What yoga discovered thousand years ago physical science has yet to discover but again sooner or later this science will understand who control the mind.

There you go again putting the cart before the horse. You first have to prove that a spirits exist before you can claim a gland is its doorway. Do you even understand the duelist problem with this hypothesis? How is a physical thing suppose to interact with a spiritual thing? There has to be a mediator, what is the mediator?

You really don't know how the brain evolved do you?[/url] If you did, the answer would become quite obvious.

What the evolution of the brain has to do with what i am saying only God knows.

Restating your position and theories doesn't make them more believable.

So if my theory is faulty then we can say that the gland that control the matter and the excrements may also control the mind and everything is then up for grab so to speak.
You are very funny surgen.

I'm not even sure what you're saying here. The brain has sections that control different aspects. All these sections do work together like a giant commitee. There is noone in charge, and everyone is kind of doing their own thing. However, they still talk to each other.

In the case in which the NDE saw the nurse dropping a baby the event happen during the NDE not before and his testimonial lead to the evidence that this incident really happen and as i said happen during the NDE so no this has nothing to do with an altered mind.

How do you know that is when the NDE occured? How do you know the baby dropped wasn't incorporated into the NDE memory afterwards? The simple answer is you don't. You assumed it was the case.

Thousand of testimonials that come to the same conclusion are no evidence.
They must all be dreaming.

Thosands of alien abduction testimonials that come to the same conclusion are no evidence. There not evidence for aliens because there are simple psycological explanations for each case. NDE's are in the same boat.

Do you know that the person has never been in that hospital? Do you know the person has never seen the other room while he was in the waiting room? Do you know that he didn't incorporated the NDE with the waiting room afterwards? There are too many other normal everyday events that can easily explain this. However, you jump to the supernatural explanation as if it were more valid.

Thousand of people who went through an NDE described their experiences in a calm and serene way not as people who had an LSD or mushroom trip.
Why should they lie?
Do they make money by lying, or they become famous by lying?
I am not the one who jump to supernatural explanations.
All of them experienced the supernatural so there got to be something real in it.
If on top of that their understanding of the system go hand in hand with my experiences in spirituality then why not.

First off, I never said they were lying. I said they were wrong. For someone to lie, they first have to know that what they're saying isn't true.

You can't seem to grasp the concept of the null hypothesis. The null hypothesis is always based on well known phenomena. The physical universe is a well known phenomena. Before you can propose newly discovered phenomena, you first have to show that the known ones cannot explain the observations. Then, you can create a falsifiable hypothesis that you test. So far, you haven't been able to do the first step. And the next step is impossible for you because your hypothesis is not falsifiable. Hense, it is not scientific.

[Angrboda]

Actually it is not me that forgot something.
Fire is energy and also electricity is energy so they all come under the light fundamental element.

Fire is rapid oxidation of a material. It releases heat and light but is not itself heat or light. It is not energy.

[Whateverist]

7 has always be an important number.
Earth, water, light, air, space, mind, spirit and 7 are the glands that control these elements but it is much better that the science that you believe in will give you the bad news so i want go any further.

You make yet another surprising point.

But don't forget that 7 is also the number of dwarves in Snow White. Their names are Doc, Dopey, Dumbo, Bashful, Grumpy, Sneezy and Happy.

Still I can't say I'm convinced that consciousness doesn't arise from the functioning of the brain based on the number of glands, dwarves or whatever those seven things you named should be called collectively.

Care to connect the dots, or maybe you prefer to leave it open and suggestive?