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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 8:40 pm
I believe that people are deserving of a basic level of respect, up until the point that they aren't - that is, until they do something to deserve losing respect, or even earning disrespect or scorn.
I don't always succeed in living up to this belief, however.
(November 16, 2014 at 8:20 pm)Jenny A Wrote: However, I do tend to wince at the way some of us respond to theists.
I do as well, including at myself at times.
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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 8:51 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 8:20 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Theists who understand that faith is not rational and is a choice to believe without evidence elicit more respect in me than theists who insist that their belief is rational. Why is it that some people tacitly assume that atheism is the rational position and that theism is not? Isn’t that already a slightly disrespectful position from which to start a conversation?
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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 9:42 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 8:51 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (November 16, 2014 at 8:20 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Theists who understand that faith is not rational and is a choice to believe without evidence elicit more respect in me than theists who insist that their belief is rational. Why is it that some people tacitly assume that atheism is the rational position and that theism is not? Isn’t that already a slightly disrespectful position from which to start a conversation?
The answer to that is that the theist always insists that a stronger standard of evidence should apply to our claim than your own. Always. It doesn't matter what the specific sub-topic is. You want to skew the rules in your favor and you demand equal respect at the same time. It doesn't work that way. Pick one.
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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 10:33 pm
Yeah, so long as by atheism we just mean a lack of belief -and that is what a lot of us mean- then atheism really is the neutral position. We all believe lots of things but I don't ask you to believe anything that you don't already believe in. So the situation is not at all the same.
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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 10:40 pm
I think it has something to do with the relative anonymity of an internet board. I know at least I have a tendency to be a little more abrasive in a debate or discussion with a theist here than I would in real life.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 10:43 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 8:51 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Why is it that some people tacitly assume that atheism is the rational position and that theism is not? Isn’t that already a slightly disrespectful position from which to start a conversation?
I don't assume it is more rational, I just don't share your belief. I don't have a reason for not sharing it, I simply don't share nor am I aware of any reason to. It is a pretty different mindset and I see no reason to justify why my mindset is what it is. As you know, I'd prefer you didn't try to either but to each his own.
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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 10:44 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2014 at 11:43 pm by dyresand.)
(November 16, 2014 at 10:33 pm)whateverist Wrote: Yeah, so long as by atheism we just mean a lack of belief -and that is what a lot of us mean- then atheism really is the neutral position. We all believe lots of things but I don't ask you to believe anything that you don't already believe in. So the situation is not at all the same.
If only theists knew your wisdom. Atheism is not rejecting or disowning a god but having a rational belief system of not believing in a god because the lack of credible evidence presented by people.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 10:54 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2014 at 10:56 pm by Whateverist.)
(November 16, 2014 at 8:51 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (November 16, 2014 at 8:20 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Theists who understand that faith is not rational and is a choice to believe without evidence elicit more respect in me than theists who insist that their belief is rational. Why is it that some people tacitly assume that atheism is the rational position and that theism is not? Isn’t that already a slightly disrespectful position from which to start a conversation?
Still ruminating on this. I think I expect a lot less rationality in human affairs than you do. I value it less too. We'll, I do value it so far as it applies and is useful but I don't expect it to apply everywhere. I think you do expect rationality to follow you everywhere and expect more of it from your fellow man. This constantly surprises me because I know about your artwork. Being an artist must mean something different to me than it does to you. I come at it more in the e.e. cummings manner. I guess we just are two different people. I'm fine with that but sometimes I like to probe and look for the core beliefs where we split.
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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 10:58 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2014 at 11:00 pm by Mystical.)
I can't respect willful ignorance. And there's a LOT of it on these forums being paraded around from one theist to another. Atheists and theists alike start off on the same foot with me until they open their mouths, and I won't lie. Once I've personally confirmed that they choose not to learn--all respect is lost, no matter the subject. Being willing to learn, is as important as breathing, in my opinion. No matter the level of education, social status, or religious belief/non belief.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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RE: R -E - S - P - E - C - T: Who gets it and who decides?
November 16, 2014 at 10:58 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 10:44 pm)dyresand Wrote: If only theists knew your wisdom. Atheism is not rejecting or disowning a god but having a rational belief system of not believing in a god because the lack of credible evidence president by people.
You're kind. I simply am comfortable with less certainty. I know I don't know shit and am not the biggest fan of rationality.
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