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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 6:42 pm
(November 30, 2014 at 6:03 pm)abaris Wrote: I didn't adress you in person, but I know that there's a movement trying to claim that David didn't kill the persons in question, but put them to work, although the bible is pretty explicit in this regard.
Also I want to point out, that David's murder isn't the big deal compared to what he did as a war lord.
But I notice, you did overlook my point about deliberately killing babies in times of war.
I don't see how anybody can use the bible to support David not arranging to have Bathsheba's husband die. Murder is always a big deal. As far as killing babies goes, I do agree that God ordered the killing of babies such as King Saul against the Amalekites. Saul disobeyed the order and spared some. Twenty years later there were enough Amalekites to capture the families of King David's and his men's families and David had to accomplish a rescue mission, but 400 Amalekites escaped from that battle. Several hundred years later a descendant of the surviving Amalekites attempted to have the entire Jewish population exterminated. God can see the future and has reasons for what he orders to be accomplished.
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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 6:47 pm
(November 30, 2014 at 6:42 pm)Lek Wrote: God can see the future and has reasons for what he orders to be accomplished.
So you say, and I know many of you do. But based on what I feel to be right, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. That was one of my first reasons to turn my back on religion.
Again, I'm neither adressing nor attacking you personally.
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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 6:48 pm
Maybe Yahweh should have focused more on improving society for all, than orchestrating wars.
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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 7:10 pm
(This post was last modified: November 30, 2014 at 7:12 pm by Lek.)
(November 30, 2014 at 6:47 pm)abaris Wrote: (November 30, 2014 at 6:42 pm)Lek Wrote: God can see the future and has reasons for what he orders to be accomplished.
So you say, and I know many of you do. But based on what I feel to be right, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. That was one of my first reasons to turn my back on religion.
Again, I'm neither adressing nor attacking you personally.
Don't worry. I don't take things personally in this forum. You make a good point. As a christian, I can't just hide my eyes from God's actions in the old testament, which I perceive as terrible, but not wrong. If you don't accept that God is more knowing than you are, then you won't be able to accept that there was a good reason for his actions in bringing the nation of Israel to prominence. The nations which he destroyed were all out to destroy Israel, from which the savior was to come. God is the judge and the one who carries out his sentences, as well as the loving creator and savior. The sentence in these cases, however, is not death forever as one might assume, including the babies. Because he is loving, as well as just, he paid the full price so that they can have eternal life. That's the message of the bible.
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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 7:46 pm
Responding to violence with more violence, when you have the power to do pretty much whatever you want, means you either aren't very smart, or you aren't trying hard enough.
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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 8:59 pm
(November 30, 2014 at 7:10 pm)Lek Wrote: As a christian, I can't just hide my eyes from God's actions in the old testament, which I perceive as terrible, but not wrong.
Just another Christian that has lost his moral compass.
So sad...
And all because of circular reasoning and illogical presuppositions.
And Christians wonder why we want to see an end (nonviolently) to their immoral doctrine.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 9:04 pm
(November 30, 2014 at 7:10 pm)Lek Wrote: (November 30, 2014 at 6:47 pm)abaris Wrote: So you say, and I know many of you do. But based on what I feel to be right, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. That was one of my first reasons to turn my back on religion.
Again, I'm neither adressing nor attacking you personally.
Don't worry. I don't take things personally in this forum. You make a good point. As a christian, I can't just hide my eyes from God's actions in the old testament, which I perceive as terrible, but not wrong. If you don't accept that God is more knowing than you are, then you won't be able to accept that there was a good reason for his actions in bringing the nation of Israel to prominence. The nations which he destroyed were all out to destroy Israel, from which the savior was to come. God is the judge and the one who carries out his sentences, as well as the loving creator and savior. The sentence in these cases, however, is not death forever as one might assume, including the babies. Because he is loving, as well as just, he paid the full price so that they can have eternal life. That's the message of the bible.
There is no excuse to such atrocities, especially not from an omnipotent divine being ...
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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 9:47 pm
(This post was last modified: November 30, 2014 at 9:59 pm by IATIA.)
(November 30, 2014 at 5:27 pm)Lek Wrote: No. It's you who haven't read the bible if you believe that it says that it's okay for us to smash babies' heads against the wall. It you're going to judge the bible, then judge it in it's entirety. I have read the bible, in it's entirety. The movie industry would need to make a new rating for a literal display of the horrendous deeds and actions in that book.
Hosea 13:16 Quote:Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
A truly loving and merciful god. We could fill a thread with these verses.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 10:41 pm
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Garden of Eden was a setup...
November 30, 2014 at 10:58 pm
If god is an atheist and we are atheists, does this mean we are god?
Should not then all these theists be on their knees worshiping us?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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