Garden of Eden was a setup...

[Lek]

I didn't adress you in person, but I know that there's a movement trying to claim that David didn't kill the persons in question, but put them to work, although the bible is pretty explicit in this regard.

Also I want to point out, that David's murder isn't the big deal compared to what he did as a war lord.

But I notice, you did overlook my point about deliberately killing babies in times of war.

I don't see how anybody can use the bible to support David not arranging to have Bathsheba's husband die. Murder is always a big deal. As far as killing babies goes, I do agree that God ordered the killing of babies such as King Saul against the Amalekites. Saul disobeyed the order and spared some. Twenty years later there were enough Amalekites to capture the families of King David's and his men's families and David had to accomplish a rescue mission, but 400 Amalekites escaped from that battle. Several hundred years later a descendant of the surviving Amalekites attempted to have the entire Jewish population exterminated. God can see the future and has reasons for what he orders to be accomplished.

[abaris]

God can see the future and has reasons for what he orders to be accomplished.

So you say, and I know many of you do. But based on what I feel to be right, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. That was one of my first reasons to turn my back on religion.

Again, I'm neither adressing nor attacking you personally.

[Chad32]

Maybe Yahweh should have focused more on improving society for all, than orchestrating wars.

[Lek]

God can see the future and has reasons for what he orders to be accomplished.

So you say, and I know many of you do. But based on what I feel to be right, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. That was one of my first reasons to turn my back on religion.

Again, I'm neither adressing nor attacking you personally.

Don't worry. I don't take things personally in this forum. You make a good point. As a christian, I can't just hide my eyes from God's actions in the old testament, which I perceive as terrible, but not wrong. If you don't accept that God is more knowing than you are, then you won't be able to accept that there was a good reason for his actions in bringing the nation of Israel to prominence. The nations which he destroyed were all out to destroy Israel, from which the savior was to come. God is the judge and the one who carries out his sentences, as well as the loving creator and savior. The sentence in these cases, however, is not death forever as one might assume, including the babies. Because he is loving, as well as just, he paid the full price so that they can have eternal life. That's the message of the bible.

[Chad32]

Responding to violence with more violence, when you have the power to do pretty much whatever you want, means you either aren't very smart, or you aren't trying hard enough.

[Simon Moon]

As a christian, I can't just hide my eyes from God's actions in the old testament, which I perceive as terrible, but not wrong.

Just another Christian that has lost his moral compass.

So sad...

And all because of circular reasoning and illogical presuppositions.

And Christians wonder why we want to see an end (nonviolently) to their immoral doctrine.

[GrandizerII]

So you say, and I know many of you do. But based on what I feel to be right, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. That was one of my first reasons to turn my back on religion.

Again, I'm neither adressing nor attacking you personally.

Don't worry. I don't take things personally in this forum. You make a good point. As a christian, I can't just hide my eyes from God's actions in the old testament, which I perceive as terrible, but not wrong. If you don't accept that God is more knowing than you are, then you won't be able to accept that there was a good reason for his actions in bringing the nation of Israel to prominence. The nations which he destroyed were all out to destroy Israel, from which the savior was to come. God is the judge and the one who carries out his sentences, as well as the loving creator and savior. The sentence in these cases, however, is not death forever as one might assume, including the babies. Because he is loving, as well as just, he paid the full price so that they can have eternal life. That's the message of the bible.

There is no excuse to such atrocities, especially not from an omnipotent divine being ...

[IATIA]

No. It's you who haven't read the bible if you believe that it says that it's okay for us to smash babies' heads against the wall. It you're going to judge the bible, then judge it in it's entirety.

I have read the bible, in it's entirety. The movie industry would need to make a new rating for a literal display of the horrendous deeds and actions in that book.

---

Hosea 13:16

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

A truly loving and merciful god. We could fill a thread with these verses.

[dyresand]

[IATIA]

If god is an atheist and we are atheists, does this mean we are god?

Should not then all these theists be on their knees worshiping us?