Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 24, 2019, 8:38 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Proof A=A
#11
RE: Proof A=A
Shouldn't this be in the philosophy section???
Reply
#12
RE: Proof A=A
Logical does not equal true.


The rules of inference all begin the the premise :"IF A-----" IE; A is always assumed to be true for the sake of argument. An inference can be logically valid and untrue. A logical inference can be considered true only if supported by empirical evidence. [at least in my materialist,non dualist reality)
Reply
#13
RE: Proof A=A
Circular argument. Materialism is a philosophy based on logic, so what you are saying is, "A logical inference can be considered true if supported by empirical evidence, which can be considered true because of the logical inference of materialism".

There are many who would argue that logical does equal true, because the three laws of logic are all supportive statements, and if one of them is taken as false, everything we know about reality that can be deduced by logic comes crumbling down.
Reply
#14
RE: Proof A=A
It's amusing, I had a conversation with a Christian the other day. It was about nonbelievers being affiliated with Satan by default. It ended up having either God, or idols. So we reached a point of:

Everything (E) is God (G): E = G
Otherwise:
Everything is an idol (I): E = I

Does this mean E = G = I; or, G = I??

I'm not really familiar with this logical argument; I think it could be inconsistent within subjective interpretation, but objectively, since everything should remain itself then it's really saying that two perspectives are identical, alike, etc. Which is qualitatively incorrect IMO.
Coming soon: Banner image-link to new anti-islam forum.
Reply
#15
RE: Proof A=A
No, E =/= I because you've already said "E = G, otherwise E = I".

In other words, if E = G is true, then E = G. If not, E = I. If they were the same, it would violate the law of non-contradiction, since what the statement is saying is I = ¬G (I is NOT G), and the law of non-contradiction in this context is ¬(G ^ I) (NOT G AND I).

You can have one or the other, not both.
Reply
#16
RE: Proof A=A
(February 17, 2010 at 4:15 am)Tiberius Wrote: Circular argument. Materialism is a philosophy based on logic, so what you are saying is, "A logical inference can be considered true if supported by empirical evidence, which can be considered true because of the logical inference of materialism".

There are many who would argue that logical does equal true, because the three laws of logic are all supportive statements, and if one of them is taken as false, everything we know about reality that can be deduced by logic comes crumbling down.

You are right that materialism is based on logic... but we can only assume logic to be correct, as it's very foundation is itself. If logic is 'true'... then everything based off of it is likewise true (in its scenario, EG: If all dogs are mountains, then no dog is not a mountain... not to mean that necessarily it is true that all dogs are mountains (The difference between a 'sound' statement and a 'valid' statement)).

But logic could perhaps be ultimately untrue... we have no way to prove its "truth" except by itself.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
Reply
#17
RE: Proof A=A
Quote:There are many who would argue that logical does equal true,


I'm sure that's true,but not a logician, or at least not the two who taught me Logic 101.

I will qualify to say a logical inference may be accepted as true if and only if the premise is true a priori, but logic alone does not guarantee truth.That is my understanding.However,it's over 30 years since since I did logic,so I admit I may have misremembered. I will gladly accept correction from someone who is qualified to make such a correction by virtue of solid training.

I'm sorry Adrian, I simply do not have the knowledge or the intellect to discuss this in more depth.
Reply
#18
RE: Proof A=A
Logical absolutes are conceptual.

a concept cannot exist without a mind.

That mind is God.

Therefore, Jesus died for your sins.


...

Pass the turkey.
Reply
#19
RE: Proof A=A
(February 17, 2010 at 12:36 pm)tavarish Wrote: Logical absolutes are conceptual.

a concept cannot exist without a mind.

That mind is God.

Therefore, Jesus died for your sins.


...

Pass the turkey.

ROFLOL

Good thing I finished my drink before reading this or You'd owe me a new laptop. Big Grin
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
Reply
#20
RE: Proof A=A
(February 16, 2010 at 6:06 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Shouldn't this be in the philosophy section???
I reckon it is not really a question, is it?
(February 16, 2010 at 9:35 pm)padraic Wrote: A logical inference can be considered true only if supported by empirical evidence. [at least in my materialist,non dualist reality)
Logic is about inferring conclusions from premisses. So logic is a conceptual activitity performed in a formal language. Logic not necessarily applies to physical reality, i.e. there is no valid logical reasoning from the conceptual to reality. So logical inference cannot be verified from empirical evidence (there is no deductional route through reality) without assuming that reality obeys logical rules. But if you assume that reality necessarily obeys logical rules, verifying a logical inference from empirical evidence would be begging the question.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Proof that I'm immortal Shantideva 64 1361 September 11, 2018 at 7:03 pm
Last Post: Jörmungandr
  An easy proof that rational numbers are countable. Jehanne 7 555 February 22, 2018 at 10:30 pm
Last Post: Jehanne
  Who Has the Burden of Proof? Rhondazvous 10 1947 October 26, 2015 at 10:49 pm
Last Post: jenny1972
  Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist Rational AKD 348 61337 October 22, 2015 at 6:34 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
Exclamation Proof For The Materialization Of Dream Objects Into Reality A Lucid Dreaming Atheist 15 2551 August 19, 2015 at 1:44 am
Last Post: Alex K
  Proof of God Harris 257 33214 May 21, 2015 at 8:24 pm
Last Post: IATIA
  Eternal the originator of time - proof. MysticKnight 114 9275 April 19, 2015 at 2:00 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Proof we Live in a Simulation AFTT47 25 3991 March 7, 2015 at 9:19 am
Last Post: robvalue
Shocked The burden of proof relating to conciousness, free choice and rationality marx_2012 107 28284 December 6, 2014 at 12:40 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Ed Feser's Aristotelian Proof of the Existence of God Dolorian 60 10264 October 28, 2014 at 9:42 am
Last Post: Brian37



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)