Critique Time!

[abaris]

Yes God, I'll put you to bed soon! Yes, you can have a story. No, not that one, it got you too excited last night.

What? Did he cause another blizzard because of you?

[Simon Moon]

I do understand this and did before I came to this forum. My problem is atheist seem to refuse anything we state, no consideration of it's possible validity. To totally disregard the Bible just because one doesn't like what said in it IMO is being dishonest.

You've been here for almost 5 years AND that's the reason why you think we reject the Bible?!

And we're the ones being dishonest You are a joke.

Reasons for rejecting the Bible:

1. Historical inaccuracies
2. Scientific inaccuracies
3. Internal and external contradictions
4. Written decades to centuries after the alleged events it contains
5. Not written by eye witnesses

Other than a few historical events and people that have been corroborated from other sources, there is no reason to accept any of the supernatural events in the Bible.

[Drich]

I have an earnest question, Drich. Do you not sometimes feel that you're making meaning of things that have no inherent meaning at all? Don't get me wrong. I, along with everybody else, have intuition and things like gut feelings. Now, I could understand how one could interpret either of these as a sort of divine message.

I use to think that way. That we get nudgings/feelings. However time and experience has put those ideas away. If you want links to what I mean by direct and indirect dealings with God I can provide you links to threads detailing someone my experiences in both.

I think the vast majority of my direction comes from understanding what God wants from us via the bible, and identifying what he wants in everyday life. If I do what God wants then despite the immediate out come my life and understanding get better.

When I dont I am left with the consequences of my actions.

That's not to say I don't want God to send signs and directions from time to time, I just don't think signs and wonders on demand is how God generally works.

So to answer your question. No I do not think I see things or look deeper into things than I should as I generally don't look for those type of things period. When God makes a move in your life you know without doubt it is God.

I have this strange feeling that this is what I should do. It must be God speaking to me!

...except that it's not. It's a psychological phenomena, an exceedingly interesting one but all the same. So, have you at least considered the possibility that you are falsely attributing natural occurrences that everyone experiences to supernatural forces (God, angels, devil, etc.)?

Visit from a 'messenger' who sat in my truck and told me of my future, as I gave him a ride. A vision/dream of Hell that that plays over in my mind just as clearly as any other memory. A vision that included elements to Hell that I honestly never heard of before, but can be biblically supported. UNheard of medical recoveries. Tested positive for Aids, with physical symptoms, and two weeks later declared free from HIV, burst appendix and over night recovery/no surgery. Tested positive for cancer markers for either non hodgekins limphoma, or prostate cancer. Presenting with other symptoms of prostate cancer. Enlarged prostate, and blood in urine. After 8 months of tests, (after my first ct scan for adominal/prostate cancer is how I was able to confirm my burst appendix) afterward I was cleared of prostate/adominal cancer. I will know by the first of the year whether or not we will need to go further into non hodgekins limphoma.
Not to mention my business and personal life.

We know When God moves in our lives because it is usally when any other movement other than God is not possible...

Yes many will try and explain away these events individually. And they are free to do so. Why? Because these events were not ment to establish and maintain a relationship with God for them through me. These are the things I need so I can be 1000% sure there in a God. So I can speak boldly here and in other places where doubt is the primary method used to dispel God. If God escorted you through Hell Himself each and everytime you faced it, you would soon stop fearing it, and everything less than Hell.

That is why I was willing to Pray for some of the same hardships I myself had or was willing to face. So that when all hope was Gone, you could begin to see God pull/protect [/quote]you from the flames.

---

But that's just it. "The ecclesiastical offices and functions" were never established with in the New Testament cannon. One can not worship the God of the bible with doctrine and traditions that God does not sanction in said bible. If catholic people want to worship the God of the pope then so be it. For me and mine we worship the God of the bible.

... Yeah... but... um, isn't it obvious that when you remove all pretension of divine authority from the clergy, you eliminate the difference between the writings of the New Testament and everything else that inherits a claim to inspiration, timelessness, insight, or whatever it is that one might delineate works of "the spirit" from works of "the flesh"?

What was written in the NT. Was a direct record of the works of the Spirit/The works of Christ Himself. The problem with the works of the clergy in this case do not reflect the works or teachings of Christ or the First century Church. One shinning example is even in the NT we are told not to pray or to worship any being but God. However the works of the clergy has us do this very thing. So again this is good if they want to worship the popes vision of God, but it does not fit the method of worship the God of the bible wants from us.

So again if you want to worship the God of the bible, then it is to the bible we must yield, and not to the traditions of religion.

---

I thought of a simple piece of advice for any religious person wanting to debate an atheist. At least, an atheist who is fairly committed rather than apathetic (which there's nothing wrong with).

Consider how strongly you know that your religion is true, your God is real, how it all just is right beyond any reasonable doubt. Now consider that the atheist feels just as strongly that your God, your book and so on are entirely unreliable and probably made up.

So if you try to tell us that "the bible is true" for example, as an unsupported assertion, that means as little to us as if we said to you "the bible is made up".

If you keep that firmly in mind, I think we could have more fruitful discussions. If you don't, I think you are utterly wasting the time of everyone involved.

I never mean to act like a spokesperson for atheists, and of course not every atheist will feel exactly the same. So I hope my statements are general enough that most atheists, at least on this board, would mainly agree. If not, please let me know as I would hate to misrepresent anyone.

Thanks for reading!

Again, that is what A/S/K is all about. It is the promise of Christ to deliver the absolute proof one needs, if we can follow the outline in luke 11.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Reasons for rejecting the Bible:

1. Historical inaccuracies
2. Scientific inaccuracies
3. Internal and external contradictions
4. Written decades to centuries after the alleged events it contains
5. Not written by eye witnesses

1. Ancient records emphasized narrative over factual documentation.
2. Symbolic content cannot be interpreted scientifically.
3. Apparent contradictions are not as problematic as they seem.
4. Original story confirmed by the on-going revelation.
5. So what?

... there is no reason to accept any of the supernatural events in the Bible.

...but since the existence of God is easily deduced from common experience, there is no reason to reject them out of hand.

[Whateverist]

I know I am asking for it when I do one of these threads, but believe it or not deep down somewhere I am here for those who want clarity and biblically based answers. It would be foolish for me to assume that the way I do things fits all people, so I am asking for Constructive criticism so that I may better relay what it is I have to say..

An example is a year or so ago it was brought to my attention that some of my nick names for some of you are off putting.. So I have made an effort to stop using them.

Is there anything else that needs to go on my new years resolution list?

Well .. I was kind of hoping you might adopt Min's nickname for you. Drippy has a certain ring to it.

[Drich]

I do understand this and did before I came to this forum. My problem is atheist seem to refuse anything we state, no consideration of it's possible validity. To totally disregard the Bible just because one doesn't like what said in it IMO is being dishonest.

You've been here for almost 5 years AND that's the reason why you think we reject the Bible?!

And we're the ones being dishonest You are a joke.

Reasons for rejecting the Bible:

1. Historical inaccuracies
2. Scientific inaccuracies
3. Internal and external contradictions
4. Written decades to centuries after the alleged events it contains
5. Not written by eye witnesses

Other than a few historical events and people that have been corroborated from other sources, there is no reason to accept any of the supernatural events in the Bible.

1. Such as?
2. Such as?
3. Such as?
4. In an oral soceity this would be the norm
5. Mark was the scribe of Peter (eye witness)
Luke was an understudy of Paul
John was an eye witness as was Matthew.
The epistles were written by the ones who established post cross christianity.

[Drich]

I know I am asking for it when I do one of these threads, but believe it or not deep down somewhere I am here for those who want clarity and biblically based answers. It would be foolish for me to assume that the way I do things fits all people, so I am asking for Constructive criticism so that I may better relay what it is I have to say..

An example is a year or so ago it was brought to my attention that some of my nick names for some of you are off putting.. So I have made an effort to stop using them.

Is there anything else that needs to go on my new years resolution list?

Well .. I was kind of hoping you might adopt Min's nickname for you. Drippy has a certain ring to it.

Whatevs...
(My name for you)

[watchamadoodle]

...
Visit from a 'messenger' who sat in my truck and told me of my future, as I gave him a ride. A vision/dream of Hell that that plays over in my mind just as clearly as any other memory. A vision that included elements to Hell that I honestly never heard of before, but can be biblically supported. UNheard of medical recoveries. Tested positive for Aids, with physical symptoms, and two weeks later declared free from HIV, burst appendix and over night recovery/no surgery. Tested positive for cancer markers for either non hodgekins limphoma, or prostate cancer. Presenting with other symptoms of prostate cancer. Enlarged prostate, and blood in urine. After 8 months of tests, (after my first ct scan for adominal/prostate cancer is how I was able to confirm my burst appendix) afterward I was cleared of prostate/adominal cancer. I will know by the first of the year whether or not we will need to go further into non hodgekins limphoma.
Not to mention my business and personal life.

We know When God moves in our lives because it is usally when any other movement other than God is not possible...

Drich, have you ever wondered if Christianity is like putting clown makeup on God? Maybe God talks to an Aztec using the Aztec religion and culture. Then God talks to a Christian using the Christian religion and culture. The Christian religion is no more true than the Aztec religion; it is just a language.

[robvalue]

Right. Our brain can only think and interpret in terms of things we know or have experienced. The surrounding mythology is bound to insert itself wherever your brain sees fit.

[Exian]

You've been here for almost 5 years AND that's the reason why you think we reject the Bible?!

And we're the ones being dishonest You are a joke.

Reasons for rejecting the Bible:

1. Historical inaccuracies
2. Scientific inaccuracies
3. Internal and external contradictions
4. Written decades to centuries after the alleged events it contains
5. Not written by eye witnesses

Other than a few historical events and people that have been corroborated from other sources, there is no reason to accept any of the supernatural events in the Bible.

1. In an oral soceity this would be the norm
2. In an oral soceity this would be the norm
3. In an oral soceity this would be the norm
4. In an oral soceity this would be the norm
5. In an oral soceity this would be the norm

Fixed that for you.