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10 Commandments
#11
RE: 10 Commandments
(February 18, 2010 at 4:55 pm)Meatball Wrote: I've heard an argument somewhat related to the expounding of the law, which claims Jesus advised to follow Mosaic Law, but strictly in a pacifist, do-no-harm way.

I don't have scripture to back that up, and I don't really understand how that works. It's a Seventh Day Adventist thing...
I'm not a jewish scholar but I believe the 300 something laws were divided into groups: ceremonial, civil, and moral. The 10 commandments being the moral laws
Scripture back up...
Romans 2:14-15 (New King James Version)


Matthew 5:17


Matthew 5:39 (New King James Version)


most people interpret chapter 5 in matthew as pacifism. It as a whole is about teaching the people that the hate bred from the OT philosophy of an eye for an eye was wrong, not that an eye for an I was wrong. That sermon is a really nice one, with the beatitudes on how to act and preaching against hate, especially from within. After that, what don't you understand about how pacifist activism works?



(February 18, 2010 at 4:09 pm)Samson Wrote: Just as Min said, keep the babble out of my children's schools and Government....

If that's your main point and the end of your logic trail then I'll cut it short with I completely agree that it should remain out of Gov. and schools. I would also like to point out that positive morality should not be left out, but religion isn't the only source for that.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#12
RE: 10 Commandments
Quote:It's not that I have a problem with the choice few commandments. My problem is the others and the fact that it has nothing to do with any type of morality.

Fair enough.

My response was about the humbug of Christians specifically. A moral relativist,my position is morality is pragmatic,not transcendent. I recognise one and only one moral authority;conscience..
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#13
RE: 10 Commandments
(February 18, 2010 at 8:25 pm)padraic Wrote: Fair enough.

My response was about the humbug of Christians specifically. A moral relativist,my position is morality is pragmatic,not transcendent. I recognise one and only one moral authority;conscience..


Oh, I agree with that on many levels Padraic....


Tack Quote:
Quote:If that's your main point and the end of your logic trail then I'll cut it short with I completely agree that it should remain out of Gov. and schools. I would also like to point out that positive morality should not be left out, but religion isn't the only source for that.

It's not my main point and please clarify what you state as a "Logic Trail".....Tack, you believe in a "Christian GOD"..... Logic, in my opinion, has left the building for you the second you state this....."NOT" to the point of you believing in a higher power etc, but the point that you label it as a "Christian one"... So in other words, please don't tell me how logical you are when you reference yourself as a "Christian".....

Also, I believe Padriac had already posted and shown the over 600 laws of the Jewish sect.. Not 300....

And on a side question, the 3 books you posted were "New" Testament "NOT" Old Testament.....
but on your defense, was it because Meatballs question was directed towards Jesus? I ask this because you brought up "Judean Laws"....

Just as him, I've heard the same story lines of "Jesus" and even story points detailed in him traveling to Northern Asia and learning the Buddhist type teachings etc.

As much as I would like to call "Bullshit", the fact remains that there is no evidence of either.. I believe I had wrote here before that, "I" can believe there was a person back then that traveled, preached, and was trying to change the way people thought etc. (Good, bad, or indifferent)... But in, no way, shape, form or fashion, do I believe this "Man" was some supernatural being or became some form of Zombie etc. .
Intelligence is the only true moral guide...
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#14
RE: 10 Commandments
(February 19, 2010 at 2:08 am)Samson Wrote:


I thought you were summarizing with your affirmation of min's belief, and agreeing with you both. I couldn't find a question to answer though. Ask away.

I know those books were NT. you might need to reread my post. Meatball didn't have references for Jesus teaching pacifism, so I gave him some. I also was inferring that he was teaching against teh hate bred by the OT laws, not the laws themselves. Was that so hard to logically follow?

What I meant by "logic trail" was the series of steps in your thought process to reach a conclusion. You're more than welcome to form whatever opinions you like of me.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#15
RE: 10 Commandments
Quote:I thought you were summarizing with your affirmation of min's belief, and agreeing with you both. I couldn't find a question to answer though. Ask away.

I know those books were NT. you might need to reread my post. Meatball didn't have references for Jesus teaching pacifism, so I gave him some. I also was inferring that he was teaching against teh hate bred by the OT laws, not the laws themselves. Was that so hard to logically follow?

What I meant by "logic trail" was the series of steps in your thought process to reach a conclusion. You're more than welcome to form whatever opinions you like of me.

IN BOLD:

My fault, I didn't realize you were replying from that part of my response when I agreed with Min. To make myself more clear, that was just one of the many reasons...


IN RED:

Considering that Jesus states we were to follow the laws of Moses, and calling "Jesus" a pacifist is a joke all on it's on...He gave a few moral speeches, but they themselves was nothing new to the world, and he by far expressed his judgment on more than one occasion in the N.T.

Matthew 10:
33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

And yes, your logic is hard to follow when based on self interpretations of a plagiarized faith based belief..


IN BLUE:

Maybe you need to reread my original post... It wasn't just about the 10 Commandments being forced in our children's classrooms and government. I was simply agreeing with Min on what he posted..

And you as well on my opinions....
Intelligence is the only true moral guide...
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#16
RE: 10 Commandments
(February 19, 2010 at 6:43 pm)Samson Wrote:


The only quesitons I say in your OP was that you wanted to know the hypocritical and ridiculous reasoning's and thought process behind 9 and 10. Correct?

ok , one's about desiring what someone else has to contemplate betrayle to get it. The other's about consciously lying to save your skin. I still am having trouble seeing your question. Do you not feel the 2 are moraly bad?

I never said I thought that jesus was a pacifist. He did preach Love and to be true to yourself and God. I was just answering the question. He also tore down temples and kicked over money baskets, you have to fight for what is right. You don't have to do it from hatred was , I feel, the main point.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#17
RE: 10 Commandments
Quote:The only quesitons I say in your OP was that you wanted to know the hypocritical and ridiculous reasoning's and thought process behind 9 and 10. Correct?

Ok, I didn't realize you were trying to answer those two points...Mainly because your first post was set in, me only agreeing with Min at the time, but was only making a point to acknowledge what else I agreed with and disagreed with, on a broader spectrum in concerns with the 10 Com.

Quote:ok , one's about desiring what someone else has to contemplate betrayle to get it. The other's about consciously lying to save your skin. I still am having trouble seeing your question. Do you not feel the 2 are moraly bad?

That's an opinionated definition of the 9th commandment...Thou shall not steal is already up there...

The definition that is more so looked at is "Envy"....I see good and bad in envy, so it can be forked in many ways....

Same with 10...it's a desire and/or want.....The U.S. Industrial nation/ Capitalism at it's core is driven massively by wants, desires and envy......But like I stated before, I see the good and bad in both, but believe it's ridiculous to be part of the 10 commandments....

Thou Shall not "Own" humans (AKA) Slaves
Thou Shall not Rape another human or living creature
Thou Shall not Beat your children
Thou Shall not torture

ETC. ETC. ETC.

If 10 Commandments were to be the front runners so looked at, then these 4 could have replaced a few or at least been part of it..... But since women or not equal, children are whipped, slaves are owned, and the ungodly women can be taken by the godly for their own...... Well..........that's part of my point...


Quote:I never said I thought that jesus was a pacifist. He did preach Love and to be true to yourself and God. I was just answering the question. He also tore down temples and kicked over money baskets, you have to fight for what is right. You don't have to do it from hatred was , I feel, the main point.

No, in his case, it had to fight for what he wanted, not necessarily what was right....
And Jesus/god whatever states their "Hatred" for groups on more than two, three occasions throughout the Bible... And I use the word "Hate" because that's what is states....
Intelligence is the only true moral guide...
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#18
RE: 10 Commandments
(February 19, 2010 at 11:57 pm)Samson Wrote:


1- Sorry I was looking at my list of ten not yours I'll rephrase (I really wish they were numbered Smile ).
1.9- is about forbidding whatsoever is prejudicial to truth
1.10- Is about not allowing discontent or envy into your heart
On a side note about slavery, some scholars suggest the commandment "you shall not steal" was intended against abductions and slavery, in agreement with the Jewish "you shall not kidnap"

2- If you don't agree with them, who cares you're an atheist you shouldn't be following or quoting the bible anyways. Here's something for you then.

3- You're still making me read into your statements for your point or question. Are you saying that they should have included a few more or a few different? Your assumption that they're the front runners is not in line with my experience as a Christian. We typically follow Matthew 22:37-39



4- He is using the Greek word "miseo" with the meaning of "to love less than" or "to reject; to push away; to refuse". Contemprarily hate is the opposite of love so the best fit in (mis)translation. Do you really interpret the verse to mean you should hate your parents?

Look, I get it. You read the old testament and it sucks. There's an entire chapter about one families lineage. There's talking burning bushes and snakes, pillars of fire, floods, cities being turned to dust. There's tons of self-righteous, hypocritical war-mongering tyrants in there and say this is all a load of crap. But if you read the new testament and can't gather that Jesus preaches about peace then there truly no hope for your reading comprehension skills.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#19
RE: 10 Commandments
Tack

You agree then that 10 is a thought crime' not letting discontent enter your heart'
How in fucks name are you to do that.
Its artificailly setting you up to fail, you are automatically a sinner and the church has got ya.

Youre justification for this one is duious at best.

And you are to have no other gods but me, is this admission of the existance of other gods? could be read that way dont you think?



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#20
RE: 10 Commandments
I understand you accept the top 4, regardless of logic and a single rational thought. And you are correct, I'm an Atheist, so of course I see it as bullshit.

And you are correct on the Old Testament and all it's infamous glory...lol. You have your opinions on it and I get that, but it still doesn't change the blunt fact that the ten commandments which has been drug over to the NT lacks in morality and justifications for it's first half.


Quote:But if you read the new testament and can't gather that Jesus preaches about peace then there truly no hope for your reading comprehension skills.
You believing that this man was some supernatural zombie being that knows best has nothing to do with my comprehension skills, which are just fine considering Jesus speaks as loosely with peace as he does killing and torture.. You just simple choose to follow the peace side... I tend to look at the whole picture....
Intelligence is the only true moral guide...
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