Can someone explain to me why the afghan war is unjust?

[Ryantology]

I keep hearing liberaltards claim that Bush started two unjust wars. I think I understand how they see the Iraq war as unjust. What I don't understand is how they see the war in afghanistan as unjust. Can someone make an argument that the war in afghanistan is unjust?

21,000 civilians have been murdered, an entire region has been destabilized because Bush started a war against a sovereign nation, even though neither its government nor its citizens attacked the United States.

[Heywood]

I keep hearing liberaltards claim that Bush started two unjust wars. I think I understand how they see the Iraq war as unjust. What I don't understand is how they see the war in afghanistan as unjust. Can someone make an argument that the war in afghanistan is unjust?

21,000 civilians have been murdered, an entire region has been destabilized because Bush started a war against a sovereign nation, even though neither its government nor its citizens attacked the United States.

We attacked Al Queada(who did attack us) and their ally/protector the Taliban. Your recollection of history is warped.

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So if it was executed differently it would have been justified???.....[sarcasm]that makes a whole lot of sense[/sarcasm].

[contempt for you and yours]If we had gone in with the unshakeable determination to successfully execute it differently then it would have been justified.[/contempt for you and yours]

The notion that how a war is executed somehow justifies it is complete and utter nonsense.

[Ryantology]

We attacked Al Queada(who did attack us) and their ally/protector the Taliban. Your recollection of history is warped.

Al Qaeda was not a sovereign nation. The Taliban government of Afghanistan might be completely deplorable, and they might have allowed Al Qaeda to operate within its sovereign territory. Going to war with the whole nation of Afghanistan was as justified and logical as it would be to declare war on the entire state of Nevada if Cliven Bundy stages the armed revolt against the government of the United States he has been threatening.

And, since what became Al Qaeda was essentially a Pentagon pet project in the 80s, a war against them should have included the imprisonment of Ronald Reagan and everyone in his administration who armed and groomed this group to cause the deaths of 3000 Americans. The blood of those innocent people is just as much on their hands.

[Heywood]

We attacked Al Queada(who did attack us) and their ally/protector the Taliban. Your recollection of history is warped.

Al Qaeda was not a sovereign nation. The Taliban government of Afghanistan might be completely deplorable, and they might have allowed Al Qaeda to operate within its sovereign territory. Going to war with the whole nation of Afghanistan was as justified and logical as it would be to declare war on the entire state of Nevada if Cliven Bundy stages the armed revolt against the government of the United States he has been threatening.

If Cliven Bundy had knocked down the Towers and the state of Nevada harbored and protected him, we certainly would have waged war on state the Nevada.....and we be justified in waging that war.

[Ryantology]

If Cliven Bundy had knocked down the Towers and the state of Nevada harbored and protected him, we certainly would have waged war on state the Nevada.....and we be justified in waging that war.

I have to assume, then, that you would be cheering the U.S. government as carpet bombs and drones destroyed whatever town you live in, indiscriminately slaughtering your friends and family, just because you had the misfortune of living where terrorists exist.

[Minimalist]

It's unjust because we didn't conduct it with the proper focus and dedication needed to shoulder the responsibility that comes with taking over a country. Instead we messed it around like a high handed Imperial adventurist with many bigger fishes to fry, and after screwing with them for 14 years left them ready to descend back into the same radicalized talibanized mess as before.

Afghans who died as result of our intervention, and couldn't give a rat's ass about OBL, therefore died for nothing.

So if it was executed differently it would have been justified???.....[sarcasm]that makes a whole lot of sense[/sarcasm].

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So, a guy shoots up a bank and then hides in an apartment building. Are you okay with dropping a 1000 pound bomb on the building and killing everyone in there because of him?

And what about the damage we inflicted on ourselves?

Are the Taliban miserable muslim scumbags? Yes. So are the bastards we support.

Except we did more than that. We built roads and schools and cell phone towers. The afghans today have it much better than the afghans of 14 years ago.

We poured 10 metric fucktons of money down a rathole so douchebags like you could rant and rave about federal spending. Sometimes, Woodie, your stupidity reaches alarming levels.

[Creed of Heresy]

Getting into a war that does not have an exit strategy is a stupid move. You may see it as an improvement over the last situation, but as we can see now in Iraq, the U.S. has a terrible history when it comes to destabalizing regions and putting someone of their choosing in power. In fact, if by some miracle this whole thing turns out to be a success(how replacing a corrupt power structure with another corrupt one could ever be considered a success, I don't know), it will be out of luck as opposed to careful planning and proper execution, and any war entered into so recklessly with such callous disregard for the nuances of the culture and regional power structure is by very definition unjust.

Let's face it. We may have weakened the Taliban, but what we really did is create a power vacuum. And as much as we try to put in a functioning government, the true power still lies with the Afghani drug lords and their tribes. We've just continued the tried and true American tradition of replacing one corrupt organization with another that makes us feel a little bit better about ourselves. That's complete selfishness under the guise of helping the people that really just creates other problems for them. "Just" is nowhere to be found.

Well, the situation in Iraq is still ongoing, and it looks like the book hasn't closed there just yet, as far as governance goes. Maliki is gone, and in his place, someone who seems much more, dare I say, liberal is in his place. Also someone who is much more amenable to doing what the US wants.

To be frank, at this point, it's elementary to comment on whether the reasons for going to war were just, or good, or bad, or what have you. It was all of those things and none of those things all at once; such is the nature of war. We all know Bush botched both wars, and we know why he launched the invasion of Iraq. The sad fact of it is is that our military is powerful enough and our nation resources extensive enough that we actually could succeed at nation-building if that was actually what our politicians wanted to do, but they don't. I would rather that we not half-ass it with what we've done and what we do.

I would rather we add another few trillion dollars to our debt and be SURE that the Iraqis and Afghanis can know peace and prosperity. We've already undertaken the responsibility whether we wanted to or not. At least then history could look back and say "it was violent, bloody, expensive, and grueling, but despite the corrupt and disgusting reasons for the starting the wars, the end result made it all worth it," instead of what it looks like it's going to end up saying, which is "it was violent, bloody, expensive, and grueling, and we half-assed it the entire way and then our political ADHD took over and we left the job unfinished, thus breeding another set of nightmares and problems and orgies of death, bloodshed, and carnage to wash over the world in the not-far-future, because that is what Americans do."

That is the part about the hellstorm in the middle east that saddens me so much; we have it in our power to put the fires out. It wouldn't be easy. But if it was actually our goal to do so, we could do it. But our politicians will consign tens of millions of innocents to more strife and conflict and oppression because their goals were reflective of the whole of this miserable misbegotten society we have in the US: Selfish, apathetic, sociopathic, willfully irresponsible, and completely devoid of any form of human compassion. :/

It doesn't matter if the wars were just or unjust. The only thing that matters now is how they end, and as is typical of this "great nation" of ours, they're going to end badly, and thus ensure that even the ends didn't justify the means.

Fuck. Now I'm depressed again...