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(January 17, 2015 at 4:39 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Once again I'll spell it out for you,
"elected government officials being a reflection of social attitudes." is Esquilax's point, I DISAGREED WITH THAT POSITION.
No. his position was:
Quote:... Which feed into/are reflections of social attitudes [...]
He's clearly stating that there's a feedback loop happening here, which you oversimplify (understandably, considering your limitations):
OK genius, what is exactly is "are reflections of social attitudes" referring to?
also how having a choice between only 2 candidates is a proper Gage of social attitudes, especially if the election is not decided by the popular vote.
Did you even read all that link because it says Denmark is not only secular but staunchly secular.
Below was taken from the link you posted and directly contradicts your stance.
Quote:This has meant a sharpened articulation of the secular values modern Denmark celebrates: political freedom, freedom of expression (including the right to criticize and even also to ridicule religious and other “holy” texts and symbols), individualism (also within the family, for instance with respect to children’s rights), and every individual’s right to live according to one’s own individual preferences, sexual liberalism (including relaxed attitudes to homosexuality, to being “daringly dressed” in public, to pornography, etc.), and women’s rights and gender equality in all spheres of life.
Not only have these secular values become more clearly articulated than before, they are nowadays also launched, at times aggressively, as values that express the very essence of contemporary Danishness.
Did you even read all that link because it says Denmark is not only secular but staunchly secular.
Below was taken from the link you posted and directly contradicts your stance.
Quote:This has meant a sharpened articulation of the secular values modern Denmark celebrates: political freedom, freedom of expression (including the right to criticize and even also to ridicule religious and other “holy” texts and symbols), individualism (also within the family, for instance with respect to children’s rights), and every individual’s right to live according to one’s own individual preferences, sexual liberalism (including relaxed attitudes to homosexuality, to being “daringly dressed” in public, to pornography, etc.), and women’s rights and gender equality in all spheres of life.
Not only have these secular values become more clearly articulated than before, they are nowadays also launched, at times aggressively, as values that express the very essence of contemporary Danishness.
It doesn't contradict anything, it makes a clear distinction between the government and the citizens.
Quote:A good 80 percent of the population can be characterized as “secular” in the sense that religious practices do not play any part in their daily life.
But we aren't discussing whether or not the "population" is secular were discussing if the Government is secular.
Quoted from the same link..
Quote: • According to the constitution (§ 54), the Lutheran-evangelic Church is the Danish People’s Church (“Folkekirke”), and is, as such, supported by the State, which means that the Lutheran-evangelic religion and its institutions and churches are given a favored place among religions in Danish society. All tax-paying citizens, regardless of their personal religious beliefs, thus contribute to the priests and bishops of the “Folkekirke.”
• Practically all citizens are automatically born as members of the “Folkekirke.” Not to be so demands that the citizens take the initiative to leave the church. At present 83 percent of the Danish population belong to the “Folkekirke.”
Quote:Of all the religions in Denmark, the most prominent is Christianity in the form of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Denmark, the state religion. However, pockets of virtually all faiths can be found among the population. The second largest faith is Islam, due to immigration since 1980. In general, however, Danes are secular, and church attendance is generally low
See? another distinction between the state and the population.
Quote: Although there is freedom of religion, there is no equality of religion, as the state sponsors only one church – the Evangelical Lutheran Church called Folkekirken, the “People’s Church.” It receives some twelve percent of its income from the state, but its largest source of income is the church taxes paid by its members. Most Danes – 84.7 % in 2001 – are members of the church, yet very few of them actively participate in it.
This means, everyone, regardless of religion supports the church through taxation. How is this secularism?
What is wrong with you guys? It is a FACT that the government of Denmark is not secular, yet you guys blatantly ignore those facts. Don't you guys claim to be logical and capable of critical thought?
Instead you guys show that you are just as fanatical as "fundies" when it comes to agreeing with fellow member of your "athiest church" despite the evidence proving otherwise.
You guys know full well if proof of God was presented to you, you'd reject it no matter what, the same way you reject Proof that Denmark isn't secular. This speak volumes of the psychology of an atheist, just as mentally unstable as any other fanatic, just under the umbrella of atheism instead of religion..
This is the only question you need answer.
Does separation of church and state exist in Denmark, yes or no?
January 18, 2015 at 12:54 am (This post was last modified: January 18, 2015 at 1:07 am by Creed of Heresy.)
(January 2, 2015 at 3:25 am)ronedee Wrote: I don't take to change very well.
You and every other delusionist in the world.
And your like wonder why we can't stand your kind. 9_9
New World Order...
What the absolute fuck.
Huggy74
Religious views: I believe in God, not religion
In other words, you believe in religion.
And just like that I completely stopped reading anything you typed up. I don't care what it was. You could have just revealed the secret to life itself and I wouldn't care because your claim of not believing in religion but believing in god is fucking stupid beyond...belief.
And if you can't understand why...I won't be slightly surprised.
January 18, 2015 at 1:35 am (This post was last modified: January 18, 2015 at 2:08 am by Huggy Bear.)
(January 18, 2015 at 12:54 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Huggy74
Religious views: I believe in God, not religion
In other words, you believe in religion.
And just like that I completely stopped reading anything you typed up. I don't care what it was. You could have just revealed the secret to life itself and I wouldn't care because your claim of not believing in religion but believing in god is fucking stupid beyond...belief.
And if you can't understand why...I won't be slightly surprised.
That all you got? considering I've had that under religious views for over a year, and that's never stopped you from reading and replying to my posts before.
(June 20, 2014 at 4:28 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Faith and knowledge cannot coexist.
For example: let's use the phrase "leap of faith" literally. If one has knowledge or proof of where they are leaping, it is no longer a leap of faith.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith
faith
noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
The moment you said faith and knowledge cannot coexist with a strange sort of pride, I realized I am talking to a brick wall, aren't I?
My explanation was very simple, but if you think you explain how faith and knowledge can in fact "coexist", I'm all ears.
I'd explain it to you, but you've already demonstrated your narrow mindedness.
Also you know full well you read my post, don't lie, you're just traumatized by finding out you atheists have more in common with religious fanatics than you ever realized, Understandable.
January 23, 2015 at 9:34 am (This post was last modified: January 23, 2015 at 9:35 am by Huggy Bear.)
Well, it seems FIDEL has abandoned the thread.
I gave plenty of time for you to prepare a rebuttal to my post
(January 16, 2015 at 11:53 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
(January 16, 2015 at 3:45 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Don't bother. You could explain, in parsimonious terms, things like nominal ascriptions, codified constitutions, the nature of governmental structures, de jure defacto, and so on, and stay dry all night here would still fail to get it.
Give him a plastic toy gun and this guy would still manage to shoot himself in the foot.
You're seriously delusional.
This is a clear example of the mindset of an atheist, If you won't accept that Denmark's government is in fact NOT secular which is easily provable, how are you going to even begin to discuss spiritual matters?
(January 3, 2015 at 8:58 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Secularism Gurantees what ive highlighted you suggest in the above post. It gives people the ability to chose a religion (or no-religion) without the state choosing for then. It prevents a state mandated religion from either existing or enforcing it's rules and dogmas on the body politic.
Now if that's not the 'freedom to chose' I don't know what is.
Quote:Of all the religions in Denmark, the most prominent is Christianity in the form of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Denmark, the state religion.
Quote: Let me briefly summarize what the State-church system implies:
• According to the constitution (§ 54), the Lutheran-evangelic Church is the Danish People’s Church (“Folkekirke”), and is, as such, supported by the State, which means that the Lutheran-evangelic religion and its institutions and churches are given a favored place among religions in Danish society. All tax-paying citizens, regardless of their personal religious beliefs, thus contribute to the priests and bishops of the “Folkekirke.”
• Practically all citizens are automatically born as members of the “Folkekirke.”Not to be so demands that the citizens take the initiative to leave the church. At present 83 percent of the Danish population belong to the “Folkekirke.”
Denmark, then, from one point of view is clearly a Christian country—as are by the same standards the other Scandinavian countries.
This amalgamates into what I for want of a better label would label a secularised Lutheranism as a dominant cosmology in Denmark. Although Denmark (and Sweden) is a country in which most of the citizens by tradition belong to the State church, Christianity as a religion does not characterize the life of any large segment of the population.
Need I go on?
Denmark clearly does not have separation between church and state, yet you fail to acknowledge your own evidence proving this fact.
You're contradicting yourself dude.
I can't wait to hear your next excuse....
What happened mate? At least have the integrity to concede.
Btw I noticed that you did make a post, but deleted it, what's up with that?
Also to those that jumped on the "Denmark is secular" bandwagon, you refer to theists as sheep, yet you all got behind FIDELS argument without doing any research for yourselves (blind leading the blind), but when FIDELS gets exposed, you guys couldn't jump back off the bandwagon fast enough, yet you like to refer to yourselves as "critical thinkers" and being "rational", this thread proves otherwise.
(January 23, 2015 at 9:34 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Well, it seems FIDEL has abandoned the thread.
I gave plenty of time for you to prepare a rebuttal to my post
(January 16, 2015 at 11:53 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: You're seriously delusional.
This is a clear example of the mindset of an atheist, If you won't accept that Denmark's government is in fact NOT secular which is easily provable, how are you going to even begin to discuss spiritual matters?
Also according to YOU secularism "gives people the ability to chose a religion (or no-religion) without the state choosing for them"
This link is also taken from your exact same post https://atheistforums.org/thread-30615-p...#pid846133 http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/rinv...enmark.htm
Need I go on?
Denmark clearly does not have separation between church and state, yet you fail to acknowledge your own evidence proving this fact.
You're contradicting yourself dude.
I can't wait to hear your next excuse....
What happened mate? At least have the integrity to concede.
Btw I noticed that you did make a post, but deleted it, what's up with that?
Also to those that jumped on the "Denmark is secular" bandwagon, you refer to theists as sheep, yet you all got behind FIDELS argument without doing any research for yourselves (blind leading the blind), but when FIDELS gets exposed, you guys couldn't jump back off the bandwagon fast enough, yet you like to refer to yourselves as "critical thinkers" and being "rational", this thread proves otherwise.
I rest my case.
Because you keep up saying new world order new world order with no evidence to prove it. Religion my fellow human being has corrupted you so badly you can't see through the bullshit people kept throwing into your face. I mean what's so bad about secularism? Do you want a country run and for 1 religion because you can do it but i am guaranteeing you that you see all these wonderful things we have we wouldn't have them. So sure you can keep thinking new world order but whats so bad about it then? what is so bad about living in a secular country were all religions are well equal? do you want christianity to be a dominant religion over others and be apart of a really hated group so badly?
(January 23, 2015 at 9:34 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Well, it seems FIDEL has abandoned the thread.
I gave plenty of time for you to prepare a rebuttal to my post
What happened mate? At least have the integrity to concede.
Btw I noticed that you did make a post, but deleted it, what's up with that?
Also to those that jumped on the "Denmark is secular" bandwagon, you refer to theists as sheep, yet you all got behind FIDELS argument without doing any research for yourselves (blind leading the blind), but when FIDELS gets exposed, you guys couldn't jump back off the bandwagon fast enough, yet you like to refer to yourselves as "critical thinkers" and being "rational", this thread proves otherwise.
I rest my case.
Because you keep up saying new world order new world order with no evidence to prove it. Religion my fellow human being has corrupted you so badly you can't see through the bullshit people kept throwing into your face. I mean what's so bad about secularism? Do you want a country run and for 1 religion because you can do it but i am guaranteeing you that you see all these wonderful things we have we wouldn't have them. So sure you can keep thinking new world order but whats so bad about it then? what is so bad about living in a secular country were all religions are well equal? do you want christianity to be a dominant religion over others and be apart of a really hated group so badly?
well if that's the case... here take this...
Wut?
What are you talking about? I'm not the OP, show me exactly where I've ever mentioned "new world order"....
(January 23, 2015 at 9:42 am)dyresand Wrote: Because you keep up saying new world order new world order with no evidence to prove it. Religion my fellow human being has corrupted you so badly you can't see through the bullshit people kept throwing into your face. I mean what's so bad about secularism? Do you want a country run and for 1 religion because you can do it but i am guaranteeing you that you see all these wonderful things we have we wouldn't have them. So sure you can keep thinking new world order but whats so bad about it then? what is so bad about living in a secular country were all religions are well equal? do you want christianity to be a dominant religion over others and be apart of a really hated group so badly?
well if that's the case... here take this...
Wut?
What are you talking about? I'm not the OP, show me exactly where I've ever mentioned "new world order"....
(January 23, 2015 at 9:48 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Wut?
What are you talking about? I'm not the OP, show me exactly where I've ever mentioned "new world order"....
you're just traumatized by finding out you atheists have more in common with religious fanatics than you ever realized, Understandable.
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