Is Islamophobia Justified?

[tantric]

You really have to understand the context of the question. Only in a world where Cultural Relativism is the default stance would this come up. Somehow the base assumption is now that all cultures are somehow equal, or have equal right to exist, or somesuch, originating in idiotic Western notions of protecting indigenous cultures.

Assuming we can define a culture as an independent entity, can we then say that some culture are better than others and by what standard? This is where all of out Good Liberal alarms go off. Who are we to judge? Isn't this exactly the same logic that leads to Nazism and pogroms?

Well, I have a standard - human rights. I would like to make the radical assertion that human rights are for humans, all of them, regardless of their culture. Some cultures gross violate human rights. Since there are no current worshipers of LeftHummingbird or SmokingMirror, I'll use the 'Aztec' culture as an example. The polity of Tenochtitlan was maintained by human sacrifice, and (please don't pick nits) a fair amount of cannibalism. The average person stood a good chance of being brutally and sadistically murdered and quiet possible eaten, and their 'balm' was toxic opiate-religious cocktail.

Was that culture 'bad'? I will say with no doubt at all that it was beautiful - the art, the pageantry, the symbolism, the poetry, were profound and extravagant. But they ATE PEOPLE. They walled up children in caves so they would be forced to eat each other. Not as exceptions, like we do with our serial killers, but as a part of normal sanctioned life.

Yes, it was bad. Yes, it had to be stopped. I'm not justifying the conquistadors - they would institute their own atrocities soon enough, but as human beings, I don't blame them for their reactions.

So, let's look at Dar al-Islam, objectively, as a culture. Thoughts?

[Thumpalumpacus]

No. Treat people as individuals.

As a cracker, I'm goddamned glad folks don't assume I'm a racist just because of the group I bel -- uh, wait, never mind.

Anyway, when dealing with human beings, generalizations suck.

[thesummerqueen]

The conquistadors didn't do what they did because the culture had to be eradicated for their beliefs. They did it because they wanted to get rich. Fuck arguing against relativism - no one with a jot of sanity ever believes that all things are equal and ignores human rights in exchange for allowing people to keep their culture. Being afraid of Muslims just because some of them are violent is bigoted.

[robvalue]

For sure, if I see a guy I assume is muslim, I'm going to assume he is a decent person unless he gives me a reason to think otherwise. Same as for everyone.

[paulpablo]

It depends on the extent of your fear of Islam.

Like Anders Brievik is an example of someone who's fear of Islam seems irrational as it drove him to kill a bunch of youngsters who were out camping and barely even connected to Islam even though his primary cause seemed to be against Islam.

On the other hand sometimes it is just a rational fear of simple religious violence which seems to follow Islam around.

It depends on the situation you're in and how you react to that situation.

I suppose it's like a phobia of dogs (Not saying Muslims are dogs) if a person is terrified of a poodle with a muzzle then it's probably a phobia, if a person is being chased by a pack of pitbulls and they look a bit scared then it's not a phobia.

I think it's probably a phrase thrown around too often, and I saw it on a TV news program with Chris Hitchens when they were asking "Is Islamophobia racism?" Which is just a stupid question to ask and an obvious attempt to try and combine two buzz words together for extra impact.

Anyway the answer to the threads question is no, but I think that's because you asked it in the wrong way, since phobia by its definition usually means a fear which is usually seen as not justified. So I'm guessing the question you wanted to ask was, is the fear of Islam justified? Which you do mention in the threads introduction. And the answer to that would be in my opinion, sometimes.

[robvalue]

I suppose technically if islamaphobia is justified, it is no longer a phobia.

Word games. I don't want to be cut up with hatchets I don't want anyone to. I am really at a loss for solutions to the current crISIS. How can you reason with people who want to die in battle?

[tantric]

BTW, while I have no problem condemning huge chunks of Islamic culture, actually being afraid of an individual because of his religion is insupportable. I remember interviewing roommates, and having to 'come out' to each one - one guy said, 'i guess it doesn't matter, so long as you don't come in my room or anything...?" I responded, "Don't worry, we're like vampires, we have to be invited."

Seriously, in different circumstances, homosexuals have lived in terror of muslims since first spake the Angel Gabriel. Women know the same fear, need to be invisible. This is the fear of Islam, not geezers who get dyspeptic when they see a turban.

[Mystic]

What I'm afraid of Islam is that often even though Quran teaches a good teaching, the Muslims believe something else.

For example Quran teaches all those who do good go to heaven, but Muslims believe people who reject Islam will not go to heaven.

The Quran teaches not to kill the apostates who don't go to war with you and want peace. The Muslims believe people who ever apostates is to be killed.

The Quran teaches lashing adulterers (not saying this is a good thing). The Muslims believe in stoning them to death.

However as far as war goes, most Muslims understand Quran teaches peace as a priority. However, now looking at how much ISIS has grew, I don't really know what Muslims will believe about war in the future and how radical they will get.

We can see how Muslims treated those who wanted justice in the past from the society and it was through killing them and putting them in jail.

Although most Muslims are peaceful now...I don't know what the future can bring because people misinterpret the text all the time and go to extremes.

The hadiths are very much extreme compared to the Quran.

[thesummerqueen]

^ this isn't much different from Christianity.

[Mystic]

^ this isn't much different from Christianity.

I don't know too much about Christianity...but I think with Christianity, their book teaches awful things, but they follow better things. But with Muslims, their book teaches better things then they follow.

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Another example of what Quran teachies and what they follow. Quran teaches only to kill who kills innocent people or who make mischief in the land (war). But Muslims believe in killing for gay sex and for adultery.