To Christians...Theocracy?

[robvalue]

We don't think Christianity created evils like slavery, we think people used Christianity as a way to justify slavery. If God had anything like the power he is meant to have, he could just stop slavery in the blink of an eye. Or just do what he did with everything else, tell them what to do, or in this case not do. You've tried hard, but I'm afraid this is the general kind of apologetic answer to slavery and it's not very strong in my opinion. The bible never condemns slavery because people at that time didn't think it was wrong. The bible tells you that you can buy slaves from the countries around you. They are your property, and you can beat them within an inch of their life without having committed a crime. This is a God, or more accurately the people speaking for God, who were perfectly fine with it. The fact that morality has since changed is not surprising, yet the book is stubbornly kept the same. The problems between the rift of two thousand years just becomes more and more apparent.

If you want to know what really happened regarding slavery, here's some footage:

http://youtu.be/dDgCnoCMf9k

[Thumpalumpacus]

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[robvalue]

I totally understand christians wanting to believe the bible somehow avoids condoning this issue, but sorry. The christian position of refusing to edit the book is coming to bite you in the arse.

If parts of it are just meant to be history and of no relevance today, then separate those parts. Have a bible, and then an appendix of "historical reference only".

That's my suggestion anyhow. Either it's all the word of God, taken as it reads, or it's a mish mash and there's no way to tell what's "God" and what's man making stuff up. Therefor, it's next to useless. If you really believe there is a God, then no man has the authority to decide what is and isn't "what God wants", old weird men with hats included.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I totally understand christians wanting to believe the bible somehow avoids condoning this issue, but sorry. The christian position of refusing to edit the book is coming to bite you in the arse.

If parts of it are just meant to be history and of no relevance today, then separate those parts. Have a bible, and then an appendix of "historical reference only".

That's my suggestion anyhow. Either it's all the word of God, taken as it reads, or it's a mish mash and there's no way to tell what's "God" and what's man making stuff up. Therefor, it's next to useless. If you really believe there is a God, then no man has the authority to decide what is and isn't "what God wants", old weird men with hats included.

The thing is, this is how you know god-given morality is false: even his own believers have moved on and upgraded to Morality 2.0, which has removed the slavery bug, automatically installs the Divorce Patch, and offers the Pedophilia Upgrade for priests with money to burn.

[robvalue]

Yep, it seems Catholics don't even want their subjects comparing themselves to god's "morality" by reading the bible. I wonder why that is?

[Grasshopper]

We don't think Christianity created evils like slavery, we think people used Christianity as a way to justify slavery. If God had anything like the power he is meant to have, he could just stop slavery in the blink of an eye. Or just do what he did with everything else, tell them what to do, or in this case not do. You've tried hard, but I'm afraid this is the general kind of apologetic answer to slavery and it's not very strong in my opinion. The bible never condemns slavery because people at that time didn't think it was wrong. The bible tells you that you can buy slaves from the countries around you. They are your property, and you can beat them within an inch of their life without having committed a crime. This is a God, or more accurately the people speaking for God, who were perfectly fine with it. The fact that morality has since changed is not surprising, yet the book is stubbornly kept the same. The problems between the rift of two thousand years just becomes more and more apparent.

If you want to know what really happened regarding slavery, here's some footage:

http://youtu.be/dDgCnoCMf9k

Well I didn't watch the video but about what you wrote. I have to disagree. There are many verses about divorce too. God said he hated it but still gave guidelines on the subject because he knew that not everyone would be able to make it work. Likewise, if you told ancient desert dwellers to not have slaves (note- different from roman slaves) while the rest of the world did, chances were they weren't going to comply. So guidelines were given. if you hit your slave hard enough to permanently damage him, he was set free from the owners monstrosity. Hebrew slaves were released after 6 years. Just because regulations were given doesn't mean God actually approved of it.
Yes people have used the old testament to justify horrific things but that could've been done with any damn thing found in nature.
As for jesus speaking about slavery. He did say slaves should obey their masters, but he also commanded to love others. And if a slave works for 6 years under a christian master who is kind to him- call me evil but I don't find anything wrong with that. You need to look at how someone's words must've affected the populace at that particular point in history without any preexisting bias. You get what I'm saying don't you?
The Atlantic slave trade was not in any way justified by Christianity. Correct me if you think I'm wrong in any way

[fr0d0]

Christians/ Christ like actions were instrumental in dismantling slavery. Biblical accounts promote humanitarian ethics over the current practices.

The bible was used both to justify slavery and to fight against it. There is nothing in the bible that forbids slavery and Paul even sent a slave back to his master. Most of the humanitarian values that the bible does promote-like caring for the poor- gets ignored by the bible's followers

Freedom of speech??? You seem to have derailed. Without freedom there cannot be love. Without love there cannot be freedom. Your proposed theocracy is anti faith.

Where have I written what a theocracy would look like? I haven't. You said earlier in this same post that a theocracy would be a bad thing. Okay. I respect that opinion. Your statement here confuses me in light of your previous assertion that a theocracy would be a bad thing. Why are you talking about love and freedom in a theocracy when you just wrote that such a system of government would be bad?

A brief response from my phone

In the Bible God is promoting fairness towards slaves. Slavery as practiced was the cultural norm. The ruling classes abuse everyone as much as they can get away with.
Followers shmollowers. People do what they like and break the rules. You're not surprised are you?

You're saying all through the op your problems with theocracy. Theocracy would be a bad thing = limiting choice. Religious rules enforced are not religious ideals chosen. Without the freedom to love God, how can you love him?

[abaris]

In the Bible God is promoting fairness towards slaves. Slavery as practiced was the cultural norm. The ruling classes abuse everyone as much as they can get away with.

Let's go there for a second and assume that god and not men promoted something. His take on slavery is bad enough. You were allowed to beat your slaves within an inch of their lives and only if they died immediately some form of punishment were to take place. If the slave survived for another couple of days and died afterwards, it's no big deal.

There are also several verses about slaves having to obey their masters no matter how cruel they turned out to be.

Yes, we're all aware that slavery was part of the game in these days, but we're talking about divine commands by a supposedly supreme being, which should be above human morality. The fact that this being simply acts in a very human way, according to the time in question points to human creating these guidelines without a divine will guiding their hands.

[Grasshopper]

It's like no one's even read what I wrote

[robvalue]

I read it, but you pretty much repeated yourself without addressing the points I made.

God is all powerful, remember? If he wants no slaves, there's no slaves. Or is he not powerful enough to do that?