Can you make a God claim?
January 8, 2015 at 10:32 am
(This post was last modified: January 8, 2015 at 10:52 am by robvalue.)
This is something I've been wibbling about recently so I thought it's time for another challenge, following the amazing success of the worship one. Here's my challenge to theists.
To my understanding, there are two factors of any claim which decide whether or not the claim is of any use at all. If it fails on any of these, it's pointless and not even worth addressing with argument or evidence. Here we go:
1) Coherent/consistent: The claim has to make sense. You have to define what you are talking about, in clear terms. It must be consistent with itself, and with the things we know about reality. If it's not coherent, there's nothing to test, I don't know what you are even claiming. If it's not consistent with itself, it's impossible. If it's not consistent with reality, it's also impossible, because we would have to throw out everything we think we know already just to consider this new claim. The reason for throwing out any conventional theory would have to be included to make this consistent.
2) Testable: The claim must be able to be investigated, in some way. If you are saying your claim is true, then you are saying you have reached that conclusion via some sort of method. So there must be some clear way in which the claim can be tested to find out whether it is true or not. If there is no way to test it, then that means the claim is either only true "for you" which makes it meaningless to anyone else, or it's just an assertion not backed by anything as you've refused to say how you even got to it in the first place. If there is no way to test your claim, no one can determine whether it is right or wrong. And if this is the case, no one can prove whether the opposite claim is right or wrong, either. So you are just arbitrarily choosing one of two positions, with no rational reason.
So my challenge is, can anyone come up with a non-trivial claim about God that meets these criteria? I have yet to see a single one. Only at that point does it make sense to even consider the evidence being presented, and to find out whether the claim is true, or most likely true.
Also, if you want to present a case that claims which don't meet these criteria are still of any value to people other than yourself, please do.
To my understanding, there are two factors of any claim which decide whether or not the claim is of any use at all. If it fails on any of these, it's pointless and not even worth addressing with argument or evidence. Here we go:
1) Coherent/consistent: The claim has to make sense. You have to define what you are talking about, in clear terms. It must be consistent with itself, and with the things we know about reality. If it's not coherent, there's nothing to test, I don't know what you are even claiming. If it's not consistent with itself, it's impossible. If it's not consistent with reality, it's also impossible, because we would have to throw out everything we think we know already just to consider this new claim. The reason for throwing out any conventional theory would have to be included to make this consistent.
2) Testable: The claim must be able to be investigated, in some way. If you are saying your claim is true, then you are saying you have reached that conclusion via some sort of method. So there must be some clear way in which the claim can be tested to find out whether it is true or not. If there is no way to test it, then that means the claim is either only true "for you" which makes it meaningless to anyone else, or it's just an assertion not backed by anything as you've refused to say how you even got to it in the first place. If there is no way to test your claim, no one can determine whether it is right or wrong. And if this is the case, no one can prove whether the opposite claim is right or wrong, either. So you are just arbitrarily choosing one of two positions, with no rational reason.
So my challenge is, can anyone come up with a non-trivial claim about God that meets these criteria? I have yet to see a single one. Only at that point does it make sense to even consider the evidence being presented, and to find out whether the claim is true, or most likely true.
Also, if you want to present a case that claims which don't meet these criteria are still of any value to people other than yourself, please do.
Feel free to send me a private message.
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Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Ignosticism bitches. OK I'll give them a bit more time before I print the t-shirts.
