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RE: China does not exist
March 2, 2010 at 8:21 pm
@ Watson:
Even if you and the rest of the people in my life are utter delusions... I must still treat you as though you exist, lest i get nowhere in my own delusion.
Hence, China exists. Even if only as a concept... even if only as my own private delusion... even if only as a place where there lives over 1 billion humans.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: China does not exist
March 2, 2010 at 8:48 pm
(March 2, 2010 at 3:24 pm)Eilonnwy Wrote: Adrian, I'm not the one claiming that a non-material being interacts with the material world. You said "if the non-material being is said to interact with the material world, we have something to talk about". My point was that if the being is defined as non-material, then the only thing you have to talk about is the invalidity of either the description "non-material" or the being's ability to interact with the material world.
In other words, asking for evidence of such a being (if described as immaterial) is as ridiculous as asking for evidence of beings from the 4th dimension.
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RE: China does not exist
March 2, 2010 at 8:52 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2010 at 8:53 pm by Ace Otana.)
(March 2, 2010 at 8:21 pm)Saerules Wrote: even if only as a place where there lives over 1 billion humans.
And way over 200 million service men and women battle ready. China is a very big boy. 
Their soldiers out number the entire US population easy. Kinda scary... 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: China does not exist
March 2, 2010 at 10:43 pm
How do you know your house exists? How do you know anything is real? Are we just dreams of a greater being? How do you know the airport you go to is not a hoax?
ZOMG.
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RE: China does not exist
March 2, 2010 at 11:40 pm
And even if you do know the above... you could not prove yourself to be right in your knowledge.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: China does not exist
March 3, 2010 at 10:22 am
(March 2, 2010 at 8:48 pm)Tiberius Wrote: (March 2, 2010 at 3:24 pm)Eilonnwy Wrote: Adrian, I'm not the one claiming that a non-material being interacts with the material world. You said "if the non-material being is said to interact with the material world, we have something to talk about". My point was that if the being is defined as non-material, then the only thing you have to talk about is the invalidity of either the description "non-material" or the being's ability to interact with the material world.
In other words, asking for evidence of such a being (if described as immaterial) is as ridiculous as asking for evidence of beings from the 4th dimension.
No. I've said, if an non-material being is said to interact with the material world in substantial ways (like prayer, miracles, etc...) we'd be able to test for it. That's all I've ever said. I'm not the one suggestion an non-material person can interact with the material. I've also stated if the being is completely non-material in all aspects and does not interact, then there is no way to test for it, but then also, why worship?
If you want to quibble about definitions, go ahead. I'm not the one who proposes an non-material entity interacts with the material, of course that is another reason why religion is incoherent. I'm simply suggesting what we could do if something so improbably was the case.
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RE: China does not exist
March 3, 2010 at 10:27 am
I'm actually pretty positive God exists, but only as a concept in the imaginations of those who believe in him.
My girlfriend was watching American Idol last night, and a contestant said "I know God will get me through this", so the judge said "well don't bother with picking up the phone and voting then, America."
I LOL'd.
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RE: China does not exist
March 3, 2010 at 10:30 am
(March 2, 2010 at 2:03 pm)Watson Wrote: So if you can poke holes in every single example, then why should I believe that China exists? I'v enever been there. Hell, perhaps somewhere down the line it was deemed beneficial to create an entirely false place and falsify evidence for such a place. So with that in mind, I believe that the person you called is really a government agent meant to trick me. The map you showed is just something made up, and you've been force-fed the idea that that place, and all those around it exist since birth.
You just can't accept that there are chinatheists, can you? (I'm joking, this thread is a joke, but it does prove a point.)
I can do what 9/11 conspiracists do and poke holes in the established fact that terrorists attacked our nation. Evidence is not about finding disparate facts and weaving a story. That's what I meant by poking holes.
(March 2, 2010 at 2:03 pm)Watson Wrote: Nothing is credibile without having experienced it. Still then, no experience is credible without faith.
That's a wonderful exercise in circular reasoning.
(March 2, 2010 at 2:03 pm)Watson Wrote: Knowing about Him does not equate to going to the 'big orgasm in the sky.' (Btw, what are your thoughts on Heaven? From the sound of it, not exactly correct.) And yes, blame the person, because there are many truths in this world which are held to be self-evident. As I keep saying, love is self-evident, and then understanding the nature of love can help to understand what transcendance means, and so on and so forth...
The concept of heaven and hell are one of the, if not the most, immoral concepts of religion. I have no respect for it, in the least.
Catch me on a different day and I might go into the rest of what you said. As it stands my commitment to my convention in one months means busy busy busy.
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RE: China does not exist
March 3, 2010 at 12:52 pm
A non-material being can interact with the world through telekenesis! DUH! What part of omnipotent do you not understand! I'll have the IPU(BBHH) draw a picture of a four sided triangle (Through telekenesis of course) then you will have proof of Her supra-ness.
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RE: China does not exist
March 3, 2010 at 1:52 pm
So how does the theist reconcile the China question? Faith? Is this just a dumb-ass argument for "atheists having faith too"?
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