It wasn't Mohammed who founded Islam.

[Minimalist]

Agreed.


But humanity invents its heroes, anyway.

[CapnAwesome]

And where is this "evidence?"

Jesus Min, read a little about it. Do you know that the Hadiths are extra Koranic accounts of Muhammads life made by people who were there. They are about as good as historical documents get for historical figures. If you applied your ridiculous overskeptisim to everybody, no historical figure would exist. Ghenghis Khan conquered the whole world has no primary sources written about him and the closest writing that we have on him is far later than those we have for Muhammad.

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Agreed.


But humanity invents its heroes, anyway.

Here is another thing and I think it's an important one. If Muhammad was invented, wouldn't they invent someone who wasn't such a horrible person? I mean what a flawed hero. He violates his own laws by marrying 7 women instead of 4. He fucks a 9 year old. He murders and kills, he loses battles and is run out of Mecca. Nobody is inventing someone who's biography is so obviously imperfect.

[Minimalist]

Jesus Min, read a little about it. Do you know that the Hadiths are extra Koranic accounts of Muhammads life made by people who were there.

No, they weren't. They were bullshit stories written a long time later with a largely political purpose because of the various factions struggling for power. I suggest you read Spencer's book.

That's roughly akin to claiming that the gospels were written by "eye-witnesses" when we know they were not.

[CapnAwesome]

Jesus Min, read a little about it. Do you know that the Hadiths are extra Koranic accounts of Muhammads life made by people who were there.

No, they weren't. They were bullshit stories written a long time later with a largely political purpose because of the various factions striggling for power. I suggest you read Spencer's book.

I listened to a number of his debates and read a good deal on his site. He ignores so much evidence that counters his points. Loads of it. Then presents some of the shittiest evidence that no historian would accept as true. (Coins with crosses and the misuse of the name Muhammad) and then makes wild speculation about it that he presents as fact. His argument is garbage. People just don't understand how we establish historical figures. Again, I'm to reiterate my point about Ghenghis Khan having no primary sources about him. Ghenghis Khan has less written about him, and much later too than Muhammad does. If someone wrote that Ghenghis Khan didn't exist no historian would take them seriously. Ancient peoples didn't keep records like we did and applying the standard that we have for modern figures to ancient ones just doesn't make sense historically. I'd be shocked if any credible historian took him seriously.

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I need to repeat however, that because Muhammad existed, it does nothing for the case of Islam being true. Islam is so obviously false. Plus Muhammad was a pedophile, terrorist and slaver. He's about as bad of founder as you could ask for. Honestly Islam would probably be better off if he hadn't existed.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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[quote='Minimalist' pid='905682' dateline='1427155626']
And where is this "evidence?"

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Jesus Min, read a little about it. Do you know that the Hadiths are extra Koranic accounts of Muhammads life made by people who were there. They are about as good as historical documents get for historical figures. If you applied your ridiculous overskeptisim to everybody, no historical figure would exist. Ghenghis Khan conquered the whole world has no primary sources written about him and the closest writing that we have on him is far later than those we have for Muhammad.

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Agreed.


But humanity invents its heroes, anyway.

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Here is another thing and I think it's an important one. If Muhammad was invented, wouldn't they invent someone who wasn't such a horrible person? I mean what a flawed hero. He violates his own laws by marrying 7 women instead of 4. He fucks a 9 year old. He murders and kills, he loses battles and is run out of Mecca. Nobody is inventing someone who's biography is so obviously imperfect.

The hadiths were written decades and centuries after Mohammed supposedly bit the dust. They are pure BS.

As for Mohammed banging a nine year old girl people in America routinely screwed seven year-old girls and even younger ones.

The characters in the Old Testament are some of the most despicable people in all of literature. Mohammed was a lunatic but they make him look sane by comparison. If there's a hell of any kind they should all be in it.