So did Atheism + bite the dust?

[Dystopia]

@ TheMessiah
You must have posted your reply while I was editing this. No big deal

?

So is the notion of men (and probably women too) getting murdered. It is a real danger, the homicide rate is still among the highest in the industrialized world for America.

The difference is that:
1 - Death threats affect both genders
2 - No one blames the dead person for being murdered - But when you are raped, society may victim-blame you by telling you "the skirt was too short" or that "you just drank too much" or that "you provoked the guy".
3 - This means that the frequency of rape threats towards women normalizes the danger of being raped that is significantly higher for women and it promotes the idea that women exist to satisfy men's urges.
4 - The problem here is also that when a woman calls out sexism, regardless of the validity of her arguments, there will be men like MRA's, returnofkings and other misogynistic social circles that will threaten her and try to put her in her place. If a man spoke out against sexism the probability of someone threatening him is not as high - Even in gaming male personalities that are against sexism in gaming and call it out are not threatened like females are, to the point people start petitions to get them fired.

[TheMessiah]

And? And? This is okay to you? I don't understand. Do you agree that people making death threats is undesirable? You're going off on a rant comparing apples to oranges.

What?

I fully agreed that people making death threats is unacceptable. My point was that the threats Anita Sarkeesian face are not isolated incidents, the gaming community she condemns, as I showed, have also faced death threats and threats to the family.

[Dystopia]

And? And? This is okay to you? I don't understand. Do you agree that people making death threats is undesirable? You're going off on a rant comparing apples to oranges.

What?

I fully agreed that people making death threats is unacceptable. My point was that the threats Anita Sarkeesian face are not isolated incidents, the gaming community she condemns, as I showed, have also faced death threats and threats to the family.

This only proves that both sides are wrong and are assholes when taken to the extreme. It doesn't really prove your point about social justice advocates and how they try to poison everything. You don't have any proof b sides tumblr that people fighting for social justice want to censor opponents.

[Pizza]

Ideology doesn't really matter much since anyone can be asshole.

---

And? And? This is okay to you? I don't understand. Do you agree that people making death threats is undesirable? You're going off on a rant comparing apples to oranges.

What?

I fully agreed that people making death threats is unacceptable. My point was that the threats Anita Sarkeesian face are not isolated incidents, the gaming community she condemns, as I showed, have also faced death threats and threats to the family.

Okay then. I was just confused by why it not being an isolated incident has important. It happened it was inappropriate behavior. I don't care who was the victim. If people threaten William Lane Craig and his family I wouldn't laugh at that.

[TheMessiah]

Censorship is a government only tool. I'm gonna need credible evidence - AKA one that is not made by an MRA institution or men's rights activists. I need empirical evidence done by a researcher.

Censorship is certainly not just a government tool. You asked for evidence of Social Justice Warriors promoting censorship? I just told you, the link Cato gave of the Social Justice Warriors in Atheism +. They outright mocked and censored opposing posts.

http://www.skepticink.com/avant-garde/20...-atheists/

And how many people really think gamers deserve to die?

And how many people really think Anita Sarkeesian deserves to be raped? These threats against Gamers are legitimate to the point where Lizzyf620, a prominent member had to stop talking about GamerGate because of the social media threats her family got.

No one takes that seriously.

Exactly...

People called Gamers immoral yet the critics were ignoring and also making horrible threats towards a demographic...

The idea that ''no one takes it seriously'' is Internet culture at play. There's little evidence to suggest an anonymous rape threat over the Internet is more severe than a death threat.

And there's a difference between insulting a whole group and mailing or commenting on a Youtube directly threatening the person.

Exactly...which is why I said, Gamers ave had direct threats given towards tem and their family. It's why Lizzyf620 was threatened, among other Gamers who had their families threatened.

LOL - I'm not going to take your MRA speech seriously. MRA's are a hate group. They are fuelled by old fashioned logic that wants to put women back in their place. Fuck MRA's and their anecdotal claims

MRA's are not a hate group. I'm not an MRA, but I sympathize with the third-wave Feminist dogma they have to face. And again, it wasn't MRA's who deemed it not legitimate, the Utah University State Official with the help of the Police deemed it not a legitimate threat

MRA's do not want to put women in their place, they want to separate the Cultural Marxists from the legitimate Feminists.

Why do anti-feminists don't give a shit about death and rape threats directed at women?

They do care. As I told you; if you go the main and central hub of Gamer-Gate, you will see that it is said in the rules that no harassment or doxxing will be tolerated and anyone who advocates it will get instant banning.

Also, not being a Feminist does not make you directly 'against' it or a misogynist.

Everyone gets criticism, but it's pretty obvious that the frequency of rape threats is somewhat frequent when a woman decides to talk about sexism, because some men want to put women in their place and shit.

I'm going to have to ask for evidence than this, because I cannot accept this assertion at face value. The frequency of threats in Gamer-Gate has forced people to stop advocating it.

Again, Lizzyf620 had to stop her support for Gamer-Gate because her family was threatened. Lizzy is a woman too, and her threat is just as valid.

The Internet is not just a place where women are the only ones who get threats, men get threats to their life simply for discussing a different opinion.

On the topic of censorship, giving someone a death threat because they support Gamer-Gate is surely attempted censorship. In fact, the sheer fact that Lizzyf620 was forced to stop her support because of her opinion is a testament to that.

With unreliable sources.

What?

You cite the rape threats Anita Sarkeesian gets from anonymous users yet somehow, the death threats on Twitter towards Gamers (recorded, therefore they have been factually made, hence not ''unreliable'') with the actual account names is somehow 'unreliable'?

Your sources are not reliable. MRA's, conservative institutions and thunderf00t.

I will post this video for the 10th time.

What is unreliable about it? It's a guy finding actual screen-capped tweets. How is that unreliable if these tweets were made by real people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5zKunaiCQw

Also, what's wrong with being Conservative? You say that as if it's a degrading insult.

Women face threats and harassment far more when they dare to criticize something that is male dominated.

Men can face threats far more when they say something out of line with a Social Justice standpoint.

Women and ethnic minoriteis started the tag #NotYourShield to vocally criticize Anita and other third-wave Feminists (Wuu) and guess what? They all got threats for it because they dared to question the narrative.

Dawkins gets threats from everyone including theists.

Yeah, so? By definition, he is a ''privileged white male'' yet he gets threats for questioning the religious narrative. His race and gender doesn't mean jack, he gets sick threats.

No but the frequency of rape threats is disturbing.

The frequency of any threat is disturbing. Not just rape threats.

Because there's already a lot of victim blaming and people who think women deserve rape. If rape threats are common against women it just shows there are men who think women deserve rape as a form of correction and that they are to blame.

There's also victim blaming for men. There is victim blaming for anyone who puts themselves into a position to get themselves known, victim blaming is silly, I agree.

Also do you realize that your speech right now is used all around the world by conservatives against every institution that fights for social justice?

No. I am not a Conservative due to their stance on religion (even if I was, seriously? How is it an insult), and I call out Social Justice Warriors when they threaten people or anyone who disagrees.

---

Ideology doesn't really matter much since anyone can be asshole.

---

What?

I fully agreed that people making death threats is unacceptable. My point was that the threats Anita Sarkeesian face are not isolated incidents, the gaming community she condemns, as I showed, have also faced death threats and threats to the family.

Okay then. I was just confused by why it not being an isolated incident has important. It happened it was inappropriate behavior. I don't care who was the victim. If people threaten William Lane Craig and his family I wouldn't laugh at that.

Okay.

I personally don't laugh at any threats. Some people can. Richard Dawkins laughed at his hatemail, I personally can't do that, but threatening people is immoral for sure and this should not really be a legit question...

---

What?

I fully agreed that people making death threats is unacceptable. My point was that the threats Anita Sarkeesian face are not isolated incidents, the gaming community she condemns, as I showed, have also faced death threats and threats to the family.

This only proves that both sides are wrong and are assholes when taken to the extreme. It doesn't really prove your point about social justice advocates and how they try to poison everything. You don't have any proof b sides tumblr that people fighting for social justice want to censor opponents.

I do have proof that they want censorship, and I've posted it. The sheer fact that Lizzy was doxxed; among other people threatened is a testament to the fact that they don't want people voicing another opinion.

Social Justice Warriors are lazy online activists. They can get riled up to the point where they must push their narrative and force it. The Atheism + is evidence...

Both sides are wrong, all I am saying is that I see a lack of acknowledgement from the media to point out threats towards Gamers.

[Pizza]

Let's just hear from her side since you like talking about her and posting videos.



Huh? She doesn't want to destroy video games? Just wants game market to be more inclusive? Wow!




First thing she said(around 43 seconds in) is it's okay to enjoy media while be aware of it's problematic elements. That sounds reasonable to me. I enjoy the "Dirty Harry" movies but I'm aware of the problematic elements those movies have like a cop using extreme violence, bending laws, and dehumanizing criminals. I don't understand why people want to turn her into this great bogeyman.

[Dystopia]

Cultural Marxism? You do realize that's an idea coined and used by white nationalists and nazis that is anti-semitic and completely bullshit?

Also check the definition of censorship - It is government only. Moderating a forum with YOUR RULES is not censorship, it is deciding who enters or not. Your claims are not supported by evidence and all your videos or proof are clearly made by someone who hates the opposite side. Do you expect to be taken seriously? Also stop posting the same video over and over again, it is annoying and it gets people tired

If you want me to take you seriously you need to provide proof that is not biased to one side. The American Enterprise Institute is conservative so obviously they share the idea of a deregulated market and endorse the Republican rhetoric.

MRA's are a hate group because they are fuelled by old fashioned logic. Claims like "most rape accusations are false" and others that are similar don't make the group legitimate. The truth is MRA's were formed in the 70's as a reaction to feminism and it is composed (and was) by men who feel threatened by women gaining more power progressively - Their objective is to highlight men's issues to the point of exaggeration to make women's issues seem less important. Giving the example of false rape accusations - Evidence points out to the numbers being the same as other crimes - Between 2-10% of false accusations; but MRA's focus on purpose on this to make rape seem less like a problem and thus they promote the idea that women are crying rape and that rape accusations are mostly false or just regretted sex. The truth is the police and courts are still very hard on rape victims and the majority of rapists do not spend a day in jail, so focusing on the problem of false accusations as if it was the biggest problem dismisses and normalizes the victim's experience and she/he may not (1) Get believed in (2) May be blamed (3) Rape myths don't help (4)She/he may not even press charges because of fear of being blamed (it has happened) (5)It also happens for courts to reduce sentences of rapists because she "seduced him" a little.

[TheMessiah]

I've heard her side before. It's dogma, she is using severely out-of-context evidence in her second video --- this is a woman, who now claims that she is a Gamer and telling people who Gaming should be despite the fact that she also said never Games. She's a fraud, if it's caught on camera, it's damning.

Here is a video which critically analyzes her assertion on damsels in distress, which is interesting because she has never really played the game she refers to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MxqSwzFy5w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxN3cbzW5E4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVFLCpz8_jc

---

Cultural Marxism? You do realize that's an idea coined and used by white nationalists and nazis that is anti-semitic and completely bullshit?

Also check the definition of censorship - It is government only. Moderating a forum with YOUR RULES is not censorship, it is deciding who enters or not. Your claims are not supported by evidence and all your videos or proof are clearly made by someone who hates the opposite side. Do you expect to be taken seriously? Also stop posting the same video over and over again, it is annoying and it gets people tired

If you want me to take you seriously you need to provide proof that is not biased to one side. The American Enterprise Institute is conservative so obviously they share the idea of a deregulated market and endorse the Republican rhetoric.

MRA's are a hate group because they are fuelled by old fashioned logic. Claims like "most rape accusations are false" and others that are similar don't make the group legitimate. The truth is MRA's were formed in the 70's as a reaction to feminism and it is composed (and was) by men who feel threatened by women gaining more power progressively - Their objective is to highlight men's issues to the point of exaggeration to make women's issues seem less important. Giving the example of false rape accusations - Evidence points out to the numbers being the same as other crimes - Between 2-10% of false accusations; but MRA's focus on purpose on this to make rape seem less like a problem and thus they promote the idea that women are crying rape and that rape accusations are mostly false or just regretted sex. The truth is the police and courts are still very hard on rape victims and the majority of rapists do not spend a day in jail, so focusing on the problem of false accusations as if it was the biggest problem dismisses and normalizes the victim's experience and she/he may not (1) Get believed in (2) May be blamed (3) Rape myths don't help (4)She/he may not even press charges because of fear of being blamed (it has happened) (5)It also happens for courts to reduce sentences of rapists because she "seduced him" a little.

1. The term Cultural Marxist is ever more relevant in the 21st Century; where we have Social Justice Warriors playing the ''who's more depressed game'' and lazily following Marxist teachings.

2. MRA's are not a hate group. Nothing about them says ''we hate women'' --- a good number of them are married men. MRA's are a group which highlight men's rights in an increasingly politically correct society and point out that third-wave Feminism is stepping into boundaries it does not need.

3. Again, see the Lizzy example for censorship example. If you think a You-Tuber harassing a woman online is censorship, then so is Lizzyf620 getting threatened

4. I post the same video because you keep ignoring it and skipping over it. I tried telling you to watch it, but you don't mention it --- so what can I do other than re-post it? Not much.

[Dystopia]

You really need to stop quoting conservative sources for your claims. Also the woman in the video reveals zero knowledge on how media actually works and affects our perceptions. I have done research on projects regarding media effects on our daily lives, and I can tell you that the way people are portrayed affects how we see and expect others to behave.

- Violence in games is two sided:
--> 1 - Violence in games can cause violence in real life if the person playing is either immature or cannot distinguish fiction and reality. Much like series like Dexter and violent movies have been accused of causing violence. It depends on the person using the medium and people should be mature enough before consumption
--> 2 - Violence in games is used strategically many times - Violence is a means, but the objective of the game isn't violence, it's to have fun - And violence is used against zombies / Villains / Bad guys / Bad people and takes many forms but it is sometimes even satirized and used in interesting concepts
------> The final conclusion is that while violence is bad, when it comes to violence in gaming there isn't a stereotype being promoted that some people are more violent or worse than others - Anyone in the game can be violent, from women to men, villains and heroes, whites and blacks, zombies and humans, and there's many forms of violence. Violence in games just tells us there's violence, it doesn't tell us twisted perceptions about reality
- Sexism is different because it operates on a one sided level that prevails over the other - Men are powerful and protagonists, women are weaker, are portrayed as sexy babes and have less important roles. Men have a more important side, white men in particular, women have a supportive role and their strength is usually limited to having hot bodies that fit unrealistic beauty standards. What does this do? It is easy, a medium that tells us that men are protagonists and strong while women are sexy and supportive supports the idea of gender roles that men are leaders of society and women should be put in their place into secondary roles.
- This study shows that female gamers are growing - The numbers are not exact because we don't know how many people play console, how many play PC, how many only play smartphones, etc. The main focus is that demographics of female gamers are growing, and older people as well. Teenage boys were never the main focus of the market. Before you say the study doesn't count because it doesn't distinguish between people who only play smartphones and those who play AAA titles, think about the following - (1) The study doesn't distinguish how many men play smartphones as well, so it's two sided (2) The study doesn't tell us how many people play diverse titles, many men only play on console FIFA or COD, and they count as gamers (3) The study doesn't distinguish between those who play 1 hour a week and those who play 10 hours a day ---> The point is I don't see how the first video you posted has any relevance - To distinguish how many people exactly play AAA titles requires a lot of economic resources for a survey, it's not easy, but the point is that female gamers are a growing demographic, despite what you may think because many are not online revealing their gender out of harassment fear or are using fake nicknames to disguise their gender; even if the percentage of females who play AAA titles is not so big as men, it is growing and it is no longer a male only medium, it never was to begin with - For profit reasons, games need to be inclusive - That's not being a misandrist, that's being rational and fair minded, it's saying "Hey women, games are for you as well, so come buy them because we need to sell more!" - Having more female characters will not ruin gaming, having less women dressed unrealistically and with unrealistic bodies will not ruin gaming, having more women in more important plot roles and with better skills and characteristics than just "sexy" will not ruin gaming.

---

1. The term Cultural Marxist is ever more relevant in the 21st Century; where we have Social Justice Warriors playing the ''who's more depressed game'' and lazily following Marxist teachings.

Cultural Marxism is an anti-semitic idea promoted by white nationalists. It's Jewish hating ideology. If you don't believe me check out stormfront forums.

2. MRA's are not a hate group. Nothing about them says ''we hate women'' --- a good number of them are married men. MRA's are a group which highlight men's rights in an increasingly politically correct society and point out that third-wave Feminism is stepping into boundaries it does not need.

Feminism is the only movement that will ever erase men's issues because men's problems are caused by gender roles and feminism hates gender roles. Why are men not taken seriously on rape or are supposed to man up and be strong all the time? Because of gender roles - Men are supposed to be strong and always enjoy sex, therefore they can't be raped. Feminists hate gender roles, therefore eliminating them will make life better for men - If men are now allowed to wear longer hair or paint nails it is because feminists have worked to make those things gender neutral and not feminine. The more gender roles are destroyed, the more men's life will be better.

I'd like to know how MRA's intend to prove men are being oppressed, that's their base ideology and it is faulty since the beginning. Men are not being oppressed and being a man gives you tremendous advantages. I'm glad I'm a man. On the other hand most MRA activism is "Men are suffering this because women did this or behave like a bitch" - What they do is blame feminism and blame women for problems such as talking about false rape accusations or stud-shaming, but they don't address issues with a critical thinking and talk about gender roles - If MRA's stopped focusing on feminism and actually talked critically about men's issues and proposed effective solutions they would be taken seriously.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Chad you speak as if there was complete equality between individuals irrespective of social status, race, identity, and so one, which clearly there isn't.

Anyone can see that some people are born both with natural talents and into social advantage. However, in terms of the civil laws, the law is to be applied equally regardless of these advantages.