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RE: So did Atheism + bite the dust?
February 18, 2015 at 9:01 pm
(This post was last modified: February 18, 2015 at 9:17 pm by GrandizerII.)
(February 16, 2015 at 7:06 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: (February 16, 2015 at 6:45 pm)Irrational Wrote: No, I was never a member there, but I'd love to join. They sound like a cool group from what I've read. The more you post, the more I think you would fit in there.
(February 16, 2015 at 6:45 pm)Irrational Wrote: Also who are the real feminists then? Only those who are not popular in the media? Or something else? Could you be less vague?
I don't know, we could start our definition with a someone who doesn't hate men and use bullying tactics to get what they want.
(February 16, 2015 at 6:45 pm)Irrational Wrote: I am sensing a lot of bias around here, and it's a little disappointing to see that you guys are letting your biases get the better of you regarding this topic.
I'm biased? I'm not the one defending a group of feminists who pulled a fire alarm just to prevent a seminar. In any other situation, you would be condeming this. If a group of atheists pulled the fire alarm in a a church in the middle of a sermon, you would condemn it. If a bunch of creationists pulled the fire alarm in the middle of a lecture on evolution, you would condemn it. Take a look at your own bias.
Do you have selective memory issues? I did condemn it. I just don't agree it's dishonest. It's disruptive, yes, not necessarily dishonest.
Hey, I'll admit I have bias but I'm trying my best not to let it get the better of me. Do understand that I'm trying to get to the truth of this by asking for clear evidence in the form of direct quotes and links. I'm not interested in just agreeing with you and others here simply for the sake of agreeing and getting along.
Anyway, I checked the forum there and read some of the posts. Look, the views there overall are ok and in line with what I strongly believe regarding gender roles and expectations. But it seems to me it's more a community for a certain type of feminist rather than a forum for debates and discussions. So no, I don't see myself fitting there honestly, but then again I don't seem to fit in much here either.
(February 18, 2015 at 4:54 pm)TheMessiah Wrote: I'm glad that Atheism Plus bit the dust. Everything they stood for spit in the face of rational and critical thought --- we had great thinkers such as Christopher Hitchens, who valued free speech and critical thinking and Atheism + went against everything he stood for; instead opting for political correctness. It was their own tyranny which led to their downfall.
I disagree that they bit the dust. The forum is still there, so not sure what you're on about.
And even if it did, feminism that strongly challenges the status quo regarding gender roles and expectations still exists. And I'm glad this is the case.
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RE: So did Atheism + bite the dust?
February 19, 2015 at 3:51 am
(February 18, 2015 at 11:09 am)Dystopia Wrote: Parkers here's a funny thread for you - http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1168
I am wondering what their definition of troll is
Wow, the defense of groupthink in that thread is amazing.
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RE: So did Atheism + bite the dust?
February 19, 2015 at 5:28 am
(This post was last modified: February 19, 2015 at 5:29 am by bennyboy.)
Fuck, I read the first page of that thread, and all I can say is thank god for AF. 
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RE: So did Atheism + bite the dust?
February 19, 2015 at 8:50 am
I think the OP in that thread has a point about evidence because some people in every group demand magical, impossible to fulfil evidence but the mentality of "either you agree or you're against us" is tremendous and I dislike that.
I don't understand the whole civility thing, what's wrong with asking for civility and rational debate?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: So did Atheism + bite the dust?
February 19, 2015 at 7:26 pm
(February 19, 2015 at 8:50 am)Dystopia Wrote: I think the OP in that thread has a point about evidence because some people in every group demand magical, impossible to fulfil evidence but the mentality of "either you agree or you're against us" is tremendous and I dislike that.
I don't understand the whole civility thing, what's wrong with asking for civility and rational debate?
Because the purpose of that forum is not rational debate. It is a venting room for frustrated people-- a moral support group. I think it's good that such a site exists, but while it adds much to the lives of individuals who want a chance to vent, it certainly (and this is my opinion) is much less of a PLUS to atheism than this site is.
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RE: So did Atheism + bite the dust?
February 19, 2015 at 7:57 pm
(This post was last modified: February 19, 2015 at 7:59 pm by Dystopia.)
Something that I find disturbing is that moderators in that forum seem to be excessively capricious and biased - If it's a long time member breaking 10 rules and insulting a supposed (not yet proven) troll it's perfectly ok, but if it's a new member innocently asking an obvious question about social justice it's terrible and it deserves an official mod warning. Are you kidding?!  Yeah apply the rules, unless they don't directly benefit us
I actually think that, regarding tone, when you piss off someone on purpose they have the right to be mad and sometimes insults are expected. If you tell me something that really hurts my feelings I have the right to call you a jerk and you can't demand "civility" as if my emotional tone made me wrong somehow - What I don't understand is why people should insult each other over something that is of little importance and that seems to be the case. If someone makes a mistake it's much better to explain why this or that is wrong instead of saying "I HATE YOU, GO FUCK YOURSELF". Civility is expected most of the time and generally your chances of convincing someone you're right increase if you avoid personal insults and overly aggressive/offensive tones (I leaned this in my communication & debate course)
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: So did Atheism + bite the dust?
February 20, 2015 at 12:22 am
Yeah, for the one's saying they've never heard of "feminazis," then I don't think it will take long on that forum to accrue some experience.
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RE: So did Atheism + bite the dust?
February 20, 2015 at 12:28 am
(February 20, 2015 at 12:22 am)bennyboy Wrote: Yeah, for the one's saying they've never heard of "feminazis," then I don't think it will take long on that forum to accrue some experience.
Actually, if you meant me, I still wouldn't call them feminazis unless they say that they hate men and all that stuff.
Feminazi is still too strong a term to apply to people whose worst crime is that they lash out in anger against any perceived trolling or attack or whatever.
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RE: So did Atheism + bite the dust?
February 20, 2015 at 4:37 am
(February 19, 2015 at 8:50 am)Dystopia Wrote: I think the OP in that thread has a point about evidence because some people in every group demand magical, impossible to fulfil evidence but the mentality of "either you agree or you're against us" is tremendous and I dislike that.
I agree that trolls will often set the evidence bar impossibly high. But actively campaigning for the banning of several members because they don't share the views of the majority -- and having that campaign supported by several moderators -- bespeaks a fragile mindset, an impression reinforced by the "safe place" rhetoric. They want to appear as if they're open to all views, freethinkers, but they also pull out the "safe spot" trump card in order to silence contrary views.
(February 19, 2015 at 8:50 am)Dystopia Wrote: I don't understand the whole civility thing, what's wrong with asking for civility and rational debate?
Nothing wrong with it -- hell, I asked for it the first couple of times I got into a tussle here, until I realized that it wasn't going to happen and instead decided to reply in kind. I prefer civility and rational debate.
But you cannot have rational debate when you silence one view a priori. In order to have rational debate, you must first permit debate. Appealing to a "safe spot" concept is the PC way of shouting down one's opponent.
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