Is the Chapel Hill incident hypocritical of Anti-Thiests?

[coolfunkDJ]

I agree, but surely the Quran doesnt teach them to kill everyone who betrays Mohammed?

Sure it does. You're supposed to kill everyone who isn't in the religion with you, including people who leave. This isn't a particularly uncommon command either; christianity has it too, it's just that christians are less likely to take that part literally. They've entered the stage of their religion where all the inconvenient things are to be interpreted, which doesn't appear to be a stage that has fully swept over the younger islamic religion just yet.

The muslims who did this are unlike most muslims and shouldn't sum up every single muslims, althought many can be batshit crazy!

Here's the thing: there's a difference between the religion, and its adherents. The French shooting doesn't sum up the character of every muslim, but it does sum up the core concepts of that religion. Those muslims that are good people, of which there are many, are that way because they are applying their rationality and compassion to their religion, in varying degrees, and excising those parts of it that conflict with those senses, not the reverse; Islam isn't instilling them with anything moral, they are subtracting the immoral teachings from islam until they produce a religion they find moral.

But in christianity Jesus didnt even kill the people hanging him on the cross? please may you send a scripture as to where it promotes violence towards people who dont believe in God Curious.

[KevinM1]

Jesus wanted to be martyred.

And here are some bible verses about non-believers: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/sa...tians.html

[SteelCurtain]

But in christianity Jesus didnt even kill the people hanging him on the cross? please may you send a scripture as to where it promotes violence towards people who dont believe in God Curious.

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, that is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 of the gods of the peoples that are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 but thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Other sins resulting in death:
Being a medium or spiritist: Leviticus 20:27.
Breaking the Sabbath: Exodus 31:14.
Attacking one’s parents to cause them bodily harm: Exodus 21:15.
Cursing one’s parents: Exodus 21:17; Leviticus 20:9.
Sacrificing your child to Moloch, a pagan god: Leviticus 20:2.
Sacrificing to idol gods: Exodus 22:20; Deuteronomy 13.
Trespassing in God’s holy things and places: Exodus 19:12,13; Numbers 1:51; 3:10,38; 18:7.
Blaspheming against God: Leviticus 24:10-16, esp. v. 16.
False Prophecy: Deuteronomy 18:20.
Contempt for the final decisions of the high court of the land: Deuteronomy 17:8-12.
Giving false testimony in a capital case

Sexual sins that were also capital crimes:

Adultery: Leviticus 20:10,11; Deuteronomy 22:22.
Incest (specifically with a daughter in law. For more, see Lev. 18:9-17): Lev. 20:12.
Marriage to both a mother and her daughter: Leviticus 20:14.
Rape of a betrothed or marred woman: Deuteronomy 22:23-29.
Homosexuality: Leviticus 20:13.
Bestiality: Leviticus 20:15,16.
Prostitution, if a priest’s daughter: Leviticus 21:9.
Pretending to be a virgin if you are not: Deuteronomy 22:13-21, esp. v. 21.

34 Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law:

36 and a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

[Esquilax]

But in christianity Jesus didnt even kill the people hanging him on the cross?

Jesus is a wildly schizophrenic character. The crucifixion was his big sacrifice moment, and so the writers wrote him as this beatific figure, all peaceful and serene. But at other moments, he's fashioning whips to beat and intimidate the moneylenders with, or likening everyone on the planet bar the Israelites to dogs, asserting that his salvation was only for them and everyone else was hellbound. Even the concept of hell is an invention of Jesus, it never occurs elsewhere in earlier scriptures; Jesus doesn't just ask us to kill nonbelievers, he also condemns them to eternal torment!

please may you send a scripture as to where it promotes violence towards people who dont believe in God Curious.

Well, you've got the Deuteronomy verses- thanks SteelCurtain- but it actually gets worse:

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."

Don't just kill nonbelievers of any stripe, murder their entire town, kill all their animals, and burn their property to cinders, where it shall remain in ruin forever.

[robvalue]

I've heard rumours that jesus is the composite of two different characters (never mind who it was based on, if anyone) one of which was a more war like figure and one a more peaceful one. So when they are put together it makes no sense. I can't remember where I read that though. But that the "Christ" bit was to do with the union of the two jesus'.

Don't quote me on that, just spreading vicious slander against our Lord and saviour.

[Regina]

I don't know, it might not be the popular opinion but I do think there's some hypocrisy to it.

Whatever way you cut it up, It looks like an unprovoked violent attack on 3 innocent people for no other reason than "because they're Muslim". They weren't terrorists, they were just 3 normal people.

It's no better when an atheist kills someone purely because they are religious, than when a radical Muslim kills for apostasy. It's nearly the same thing to me. It's lowering yourself to the exact same behaviour atheism hates in religion, so we're no better if we let it slide and pretend radical atheism doesn't exist.

[SteelCurtain]

Whatever way you cut it up, those 3 people are widely believed to have been good people who did nothng wrong, therefore if he killed them it's for no other reason than "because they're Muslim".

Again, people, this was an incident over a parking spot! They didn't do anything wrong, they were absolutely peaceful Muslims. But this was an altercation that this asshole took far enough to murder people. I still think it's too early to say that this crime was motivated solely by his anti-theism.

Put it this way, if a Christian who posts anti-terrorism shit on FB all the time and retweets all of the BS religious memes that come his way about "Religion of Peace" and Quran verses that show the barbarity of the book kills people after a parking lot altercation and the people he kills happen to be Muslim, would we approach this differently?

Could this have been a hate crime? Absolutely. I just think it's not automatically one.

[robvalue]

But someone going around killing muslims is a bit more than a radical atheist, they are just a psychopath who happens to be atheist. All sane atheists condemn such violence, but share none of the blame. Indeed, any sort of violence from atheists should be discouraged. But if it is motivated by violence against a religion, that's nothing to do with atheism, anyone can attack members of a religion, even other religions. So the fact they are atheist is incidental and doesn't somehow make atheism dangerous.

As it happens, the fact they were muslims may be irrelevant and the guy is just a psycho killing people over nothing important. But again, atheism irrelevant.

[Dystopia]

Anti-theists know better that killing religious people is not the answer... In fact, as an anti-theist I feel sorry for them. There's so many indoctrination and people become so blind and refuse to believe where the evidence points, I can't blame them, they are brainwashed. A wise anti-theist will simply know that religion will fade away with time, and whoever denies it is going against the tide.

[Metis]

Pretty much, but that's why it's usually a bad idea to make an appeal to "Theism causes bloodshed". People get killed in the U.S for their damn trainers, does that mean Nike needs to be purged from the earth?

Debatable, I think they're horribly tacky and hobo'ish but you can see why this doesn't wash with non-Atheists. Every group has its wackos that will do something horrible "in its name", even if "the name" is really an absence of one as contradictory as it sounds.

There's been people who have killed in the name of nihilism, literally in the name of non-existence. It's a bad idea for either side to appeal to it.