The future of Atheism

[pocaracas]

I'd like to think one day everyone would wise up and leave the twilight zone, but I'm increasingly doubtful its ever going to happen and a fight no one can ultimately "win". The Theists are going to be round a while yet and while the number of liberal ones might rise the number of Atheists isn't.

What do you think?

As a european, I'm not so sure the number of atheists isn't rising.
The way I see it, around here most teens, these days have no belief in the god boy. They're aware of some people believing in it, but they just can't go with it... too much nonsense.
As these youth become the parents of tomorrow, theirs kids will be brought up on even less religious influences... eventually, there will be a generation with no awareness of what religion is, unless it is taught at school.
These blank slates will be prime targets for the con artists of the future... I guess it wouldn't hurt to teach history of myths at the primary school level, to prevent such blankness and instill the notion that myths are as true as witches and faeries and leprechauns and... well... myths.

[Metis]

I find it annoying that you're an anti-theist while you're religious views description says theist.

I believe religion won't ever disappear. It will just change into something else. Religion trived for so long because it exploits several human weaknesses: mental laziness, confirmation bias, unquestionable loyalty, us vs them mentality, etc... If we remove all the human weaknesses that religion exploits, then religion won't exist.

B-But I am a Theist! I am the one true and original creator of the universe and everything in it. Except One Direction, they're here due to your sins.

As for the rest...I don't know, there are some fears and weaknesses I'm not sure will be removed. We can learn to cope with the prospect of death and be resigned to it, but it's never going to be as appealing as the idea of a magic wonderland afterwards.

I think secularism will thrive, and the emotional hold of religion's myths will wane as fundamentalists die out and more liberal theists replace them, and so on. The Internet is doing the dirty on religion big time. I think religion will only continue to hold power by force in the long run. It will otherwise be relegated quite a lot in its validity and effect.

I originally thought this progressive model would work too, but it seems to some degrees we're actually going slightly backwards. In the U.K for instance while there's been "faith schools" for the past 140'ish years supported in part by the state they've always had limits on what they can do (i.e: They had to teach evolution and comparative religion since the 60's if they liked it or not). These days there's lots of "Free Schools" setting up shop which teach only creationism, that the rules of the Koran overrule the state (see Trojan horse scandal) and other bizzare things.

The religious here might be losing ground on some fronts like gay marriage, but on others they're making rather large gains.

Who cares?! The U.K. is nearly free of Christian influence. You have no idea how much we in the U.S. envy you. Let them have their baptisms, their weddings and their funerals. They're not trying to force their will upon you, they're not sabotaging education and they're not holding back progress. What's the problem?

Well, I would actually say they are sabotaging the education system. They've always had a grip, the majority control of schools even but this is steadily increasing. Might not be the same as in Ireland where 90%-odd of schools are ran directly by the Catholic church but it's something to keep an eye on.

You spent 4 years studying theology out of choice and aren't a Theist???

Nope. I qualified for a variety of scholarships when I was getting ready for university and the one for studying "Divinity" (i.e: Biblical Scholarship, Theology or anything like that) happened to be the biggest.

I just wanted to get a degree and this way I could do it with no debts. It was boring, but I was being bored at no cost with free board rather than paying a few thousand a year for the privilege.

Why not?

If the person is actually a metis, the influence of Western Christianity on his life and culture are almost absolute.

Pretty much, like it or not Christianity has and in some parts continues to heavily influence sections of western society. The English language draws heavily on theism, most obvious in cursing and it does help when looking back on history or examining art what motivated them to do things and how rthey saw the world.

A still life by one of the Dutch masters makes little obvious sense up front, but with a knowledge of reformation theology it takes surprising depths and allegorical meaning missing in other forms of art. Sure I think it's all a crock of shit but it doesn't make it any less pretty or thought provoking.

We have different standards for what constitutes a good time.

Nah, it was boring, most of the Christians on my course thought it was boring too. It's pretty dry subject matter but it does have its advantages, I can quote Aquinas, Calvin, Knox or pick out sections of the bible from memory; Theists get infuriated when you know the scriptures better than them and you can pull out a degree from a school of divinity to prove it.

I actually did sniff about to see if I could do a PhD on a theological topic, but so far I've been refused because they don't feel I am "reverent" towards the subject matter or "approach scripture with the correct intent" (i.e: it's too awkward for a Catholic/Protestant Theology department to give a doctorate to a non-believer, and a gay one at that!).

I actually understand really, it would be a bit like a straight guy doing queer or women studies; they can learn about it but their work will never be accepted as authoritative because they can't ever talk about it from experience. Same for me, I can talk about theory all I want but I can't really elaborate on mystical experiences at the communion table.

That and of course because I life "the gay lifestyle" I'm part of a worldwide Illuminati conspiracy to make straight guys take it up the ass to bring about the extinction of the human race for the glory of Satan apparently. Would be like putting Hitchens to teach Islam in a Madrassa.

I have no interest in pushing my nonbelief onto others. I'm happy to act against their encroachments, and will defend our rights happily, but I don't care what you or anyone else believes insofar as it does not affect me. When it gets to that point, I do push back.

Yeah, for the most part that works, but what do you do when a mentally ill person starts cutting themselves? Do you just stand back and let them?

What about a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses or Christian Scientists who refuse medical care to their child (both of those, especially the later have serious issues with modern medicine, the latter rejects it almost entirely as "rejection of Jesus")? Do you sit and watch the kid die or do you drag it off to the hospital? I sure as hell couldn't do the former, that little bastards getting treated if the parents like it or not!

I've actually got an example closer to home, my partner is/was a Roman Catholic and while I don't expect him to run off he still gets these weird guilt trips every now and then. I know another Lesbian who's married to a guy she doesn't even like, but because of the Mormon wacko's had to get hitched otherwise she's damned.

Nah, I don't think I'm damaged but I know a lot of people who are, I have nothing against the liberal ones who mostly agree with secularism and just want to do their rituals on Sundays but the rest sometimes need to be put on a leash.

[Spooky]

I find it annoying that you're an anti-theist while you're religious views description says theist.

...

You might want to look at the crazy labels some other forum members choose. Reality and what is stated in such a label need have nothing in common.

Also, take a look at his first post:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-31506-po...#pid870995

That explains the label. Frankly, the required label annoyed me when I registered. It is nobody's goddamned business what I believe, and no one has the right to demand that I tell them. I say, when someone demands such things, they have no right to expect the truth. And in the case of online posting, only fools believe everything they read.

Indeed. Last I knew GC was still prancing around with "christian atheist" or some other bs.

We can call ourselves whatever we want to.

[LastPoet]

The future for atheism? Hopefully people in the future will let go by their own volition the siliness of magic, and no need for atheism to exist, due to the lack of theism to begin with...

A guy can only dream, but there will always be smart-asses ready to reap the gullible of their money for the belief in something, something magic side of life.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yeah, for the most part that works, but what do you do when a mentally ill person starts cutting themselves? Do you just stand back and let them?

I stand back and call 911.

What about a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses or Christian Scientists who refuse medical care to their child (both of those, especially the later have serious issues with modern medicine, the latter rejects it almost entirely as "rejection of Jesus")? Do you sit and watch the kid die or do you drag it off to the hospital? I sure as hell couldn't do the former, that little bastards getting treated if the parents like it or not!

Perhaps you didn't understand me when I said "our rights". I didn't mean "our rights as atheists", but rather, our rights as citizens. So no, obviously I don't think parents should be permitted faith-healing as a medical option for their children, any more than they should be permitted torture as a disciplinary option.

I've actually got an example closer to home, my partner is/was a Roman Catholic and while I don't expect him to run off he still gets these weird guilt trips every now and then. I know another Lesbian who's married to a guy she doesn't even like, but because of the Mormon wacko's had to get hitched otherwise she's damned.

Both those things are not in the purview of rights. If people want to burden themselves with guilt, or adopt a lifestyle not of their own preference for fear of offending others, that's their business, not mine.

Nah, I don't think I'm damaged but I know a lot of people who are, I have nothing against the liberal ones who mostly agree with secularism and just want to do their rituals on Sundays but the rest sometimes need to be put on a leash.

Insofar as they encroach upon our rights, leashing is appropriate. So long as they keep their faith to their own lives, I don't give a shit.