Why I'm Still a Christian

[dyresand]

Well Lek i can honestly say i'm proud of you.

[Whateverist]

Thanks for all the kudos. What I have experienced over time is an awareness of things apart from what I had become accustomed to accepting. One thing I'd like to make clear, though, is that the changes in my views don't represent steps away from christianity. I am still a staunch follower of Christ and always will be. The bible is my guide for life. What I want is to live my christian life being open to the needs of all, and that requires that we step out of our worlds and experience the worlds of others as well.

Very well said. Best of luck to you. Your life will be better for digesting as many points of view as possible. None of us is required to agree with another, yourself included. But there is something to be said for understanding people's real point of view and the best reasons for them holding on to it. To glide through life assuming what the other person has to say before they finish and immediately attributing the worst of intentions can lead to a pretty lonely life. I'm glad you've found a way out of the popular xtian hive mind on this point. You could accomplish a lot of good just by challenging your fellow believers to join you in that when the opportunity arises.

[Chas]

I have no problem with the civil union thing and government getting out of the marriage business, with one caveat. That the church get the fuck out of the legally binding agreement business. You want marriage limited to a religious function? Fine, as long as it has no legal ramifications whatsoever. If you want to reduce it to a promise before your gawd, knock yourself out. Civil unions could them become the legal end of what marriage is today and marriage can become no more important to the functioning of society than whether or not your holy shaman dunked you in some water.

Anyone who claims the buy-bull clearly defines marriage as one man and one woman hasn't read that fucking book.

Marriage is binding to christians. And I agree that civil unions are pretty much a necessity to protect the interest of the parties involved. Of course, if all christians followed God's law in marriage, they wouldn't need a civil contract to protect the partners. As far as I'm concerned though, I'm married whether or not the government tells me I am. I don't need the government's authorization to be married.

No, you're not legally. You are denying the legal definition of marriage.

Why is the word 'marriage' so important to you?

---

I have asked Christians this for years. Yet to get a reasonable answer.

Swedenborg already answered that question in the twenty-two volumes of 'Arcana Coelestia'.

He said 'reasonable'.

[Simon Moon]

That sounds like a fair summary. The reason I accept it is because his heuristic remains consistent, which is the opposite of cherry picking.

Since when does 'consistent' equal 'true'?

And yes, I agree, I was wrong in stating that it sounded like cherry picking.

Still doesn't answer why an infallible god waited so long to provide a fallible human to figure out how to understand the Bible? Seems the god should have included that in the Bible.

Sure would have prevented so many sects that disagree on literally every Christian doctrine, wars, torture, etc.

Maybe you believe in a god that is not quite infallible?

[Lek]

So, Lek, am I to assume you're not going to address anything I put to you on page one?

Sorry. I got into a busy spell. Yes, you did ask some good questions. I have to go to work now, but I'll address those when I return.

[Nope]

Unfortunately, I can't say I've made any friends here, but I think if we could meet in person that would happen.

Just for the record, I like most of the people on this forum, including you.

I am glad that you have accepted more progressive views. Some people, for whatever reason, need religion. That doesn't make them stupid. It just means that they have a vulnerability that religion meets.

My goal on this forum is not to change anyone's mind, although that is nice when it happens. I just like to debate. Sometimes I think that religious people come on this site feeling as if they might convert a few atheists but most of the atheists on this site know why they aren't religious.

[Esquilax]

Last week I was in the midst of pursuing a discussion in this forum concerning a loving God when I suddenly realized that I had argued the same points numerous times before, and that this discussion would end the same way as all the rest - in seeming futility. This made me begin to re-examine why I spend so much time here and why I had even begun in the first place. I decided to back off, take a breather and summarize in my mind what had transpired in my thinking and beliefs since I had joined the form on December 14, 2013. What I have discovered is there has been quite a change since that day. I found that it can be very scary to venture out of the comfortable world that you've come to accept and face new possibilities. My thought was that if my faith was real and defensible, it should stand up up to all the questions, and I wanted to face them head-on. As I found out, you folks here were only too happy to oblige me in that regard.

Good for you: the truth doesn't have anything to fear from investigation, and kudos for having the wherewithal to understand that.

Here's some things that have changed since Dec 14, 2013:

I was a progressive creationist and I am now an evolutionist. I've acquired a greater appreciation for what science can teach us.

This makes me happy; I've never thought of evolution as some grand, dichotomous schism with religion, just as an astoundingly elegant and interesting topic that some people refuse to entertain beyond their own myopia. Seeing someone else share in that world, where before they wouldn't have, is gratifying.

Although I was never a biblical literalist, I am now more convinced that the bible is true and inspired, but it was not written to be a scientific or historical textbook, and so it can't always be relied to be specifically accurate in that regard.

That'll do wonders for your cognitive dissonance.

I was against gay marriage and civil unions, but I now support civil unions, but not gay marriage. I don't think the government has any business in marriage.

I've never understood this: you don't believe the government should have a stake in marriage, but at the same time believe that gay people should be prevented from getting married in favor of civil unions? If the government gets out of marriage then there will be nothing preventing gay marriage at all. So, what's the solution? Should the government prevent gay marriage but allow civil unions, undercutting half of your beliefs here? Or should the government not stand in the way, turning the whole thing into little more than a moral stance based on an argument from tradition?

Unfortunately, I can't say I've made any friends here, but I think if we could meet in person that would happen.

Actually, you're one of the few theists here that I feel like I'd enjoy being around.

[watchamadoodle]

@Lek, it seems like you covered why you as a Christian find AF rewarding, but you didn't cover why you are a Christian. If you have time later, you might touch on that issue along with other questions. (I've always been curious how Christians think, because I used to be one.)

[Lek]

So when can it be relied upon, and how do you know which parts are the accurate ones?

The bible is totally reliable to relate the truth that God wants it to. One purpose of the old testament was to declare God as the creator of the universe and that he is above all. Also it shows us that we are sinners in need of a messiah and leads us to the coming of our savior Jesus Christ. I view the gospels as accurate history, attested to by four different writers from that time. There's also the views of the early church fathers who lived so close to the time of Jesus and the new testament writers. Finally, I rely on the Holy Spirit, the Counselor, whom Jesus promised to his followers - the one who would "lead us into all truth". When I read scripture I'm being led by the Holy Spirit to ensure that eventually I will know the truth of the scriptures.

Why not? How long do you think one's time there will be?

How long is hell? As long as it takes to acknowledge Christ.

Romans 14:11 (NIV)
11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

Why do you believe this?

(About those who are unable to hear of Christ). I believe that those who truly seek God but haven't heard of Christ will be saved because:

Matthew 7:7New International Version (NIV)
7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

But government does have business in marriage, as religion doesn't have a monopoly on the term. What do you want gay couples to do while you fight the government over semantics?

Government has the business of ensuring peoples' rights are upheld. I believe if you give certain legal rights to one type of adult couple that right should be available to other types of adult couples, whether they are married or not. I can be married without the government's consent and with no legal contract just by my wife and me pledging ourselves to each other. The government deciding to change the meaning of marriage to encompass two people of the same sex is akin to a college declaring that fraternities now consist of men and women. They would be redefining an institution that is dear to many. Fraternities were established first, and then when women wanted a similar organization, they didn't proceed to change the definition of fraternities to include women, but rather established a similar organization for women.

I hope you meant to add that while you think it's sinful, you have no business sticking your nose into anyone's bedroom but your own.

(In regards to homosexual relations). Agreed.

I think I remember you saying once that you only visit the Christianity section of the forum. We often do discuss our similarities in other sections.

I spend most of my time in the christianity and atheist forums, and have dabbled in the off topic and political areas, but I'm a conservative, which puts me at odds with most of the posters there. Don't get me wrong though. I do enjoy debating.

[Losty]

*cries* I wish I could edit your post