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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 2, 2015 at 11:16 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2015 at 11:52 pm by watchamadoodle.)
(March 2, 2015 at 12:07 pm)YGninja Wrote: Sure you weren't indoctrinated at college and told the truth during childhood? Do you think that your college is impartial, or your professors, or the ones deciding their wages and the curriculem? What do you ground that belief on? I went to a science and engineering college, so the professors weren't a factor at all. I didn't take any electives in philosophy and I don't think we even had electives in religion.
I remember one day the issue of God came up with some friends. In the course of the conversation, my friends were aghast that I still believed the Bible somewhat literally. So I gradually reexamined and discarded those beliefs, and eventually I discarded my belief in God (for the most part). In retrospect I should have finished-off God right there, but I just gave him a few kicks and walked off. That was a mistake, because he came back to cause trouble for me 20 years later. Now I think he's really dead. *kick him one more time to be sure* - yeah. 
(March 2, 2015 at 12:55 pm)professor Wrote: Willie Wonka said; "A little nonsense is relished by the wisest man." good quote. 
(March 2, 2015 at 1:36 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Of course, going to college tends to have little effect on the faith of liberal Christians, who weren't taught that evolution is a lie and science is a conspiracy to perpetuate that lie and everything in the Bible actually happened exactly as portrayed. A certain comfort level with ambiguity is a strong defense against new facts breaking your faith. That's a good point. I was an Episcopalian. Giving up a literal understanding of the Bible didn't kill my faith. I lost faith, because I wanted God to do something to show me he existed (such the born again experiences, spiritual gifts, etc.). I never could make any of that work, so I lost faith. Unfortunately, I didn't become a gnostic non-Christian. I didn't learn all the reasons why Christianity can't be true. That was unfortunate in hindsight. 
(March 2, 2015 at 3:05 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: We don't operate under the premise that "nothing other than naturalism can exist, period, end of story", we operate under the premise that "as of yet, there is no reason to believe anything supernatural does exist, and until the existence of the supernatural can be proven, there's no justification of operating under that assumption." I'm not sure methodological naturalism even goes that far? I think it just says that supernatural is rare enough that we can ignore it when we do science? Same difference though I suppose.
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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 3, 2015 at 12:21 am
(March 2, 2015 at 11:37 am)watchamadoodle Wrote: EDIT: I especially don't understand how fundamentalists can come to atheist forums and debate these issues without realizing that their beliefs are silly. This is different from those fundamentalists who don't think much about their beliefs. "Words need to be sown like seeds. No matter how tiny a seed may be, when in lands in the right sort of ground it unfolds its strength and from being minute expands and grows to a massive size.”
― Seneca
I remind myself, many years ago I was like them too.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 3, 2015 at 3:01 am
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2015 at 3:08 am by Invisible Sky Fairy.)
(March 2, 2015 at 1:30 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (March 2, 2015 at 12:55 pm)professor Wrote: What YG said.
You guys are a scream.
Which is one of the reasons I come here.
Willie Wonka said; "A little nonsense is relished by the wisest man."
You guys are in a veritable lake of nonsense gazing out, thinking everyone on shore is deluded.
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men" - not the permanent state of nonsense you both advocate and personify... professor.
No no, that's what Willy Wonka said. He's talking about Will ie Wonka, who is presumably some sort of knockoff and therefore has worse lines.
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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 3, 2015 at 7:23 am
Good point. Probably Wonka's wife, before she vanished after that regrettable Oompa Loompa orgy/Fudgalicious Surprise factory recall business.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 3, 2015 at 12:47 pm
Well they won't wake up because
1. Reality is boring.
2. god and magic is better than reality.
3. Ignorance its bliss.
4. Superiority complex.
5. over all again reality is boring without a imaginary god.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 3, 2015 at 12:59 pm
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2015 at 1:11 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(March 2, 2015 at 12:55 pm)professor Wrote: You guys are in a veritable lake of nonsense gazing out, thinking everyone on shore is deluded.
... said the conspiracy freak ...
(March 2, 2015 at 1:53 pm)YGninja Wrote: Faith is trust, or belief without proof, not evidence.
Nonsense. You're equivocating two different meanings of faith.
(March 2, 2015 at 1:53 pm)YGninja Wrote: Proof shows a position to be true, evidence suggests a position might be true.
Proof is the realm of math, logic, and jurisprudence, not science. Anyone with an education in science would know that.
Evidence can also suggest a position to be false, as well.
(March 2, 2015 at 2:07 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: When it comes to Holy Scripture, literal minded people find themselves forced to choose between fundamentalism and scientism.
And when it comes to the Bible, metaphorists must pray like hell that their interpretation is the right one ... or else.
(March 2, 2015 at 2:14 pm)YGninja Wrote: Who supplied the light for the enlightenment? Lucifer the Light-Bearer, ofcourse. In essence, the science paradigm was born out of Luciferianism, for the purpose of creating atheists, who are in principle indistinguishable from Luciferian, although don't self-acknowledge it.
Which is just another way of saying that your religion values ignorance.
No thanks. You can stay ignorant. I prefer to be educated.
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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 3, 2015 at 2:43 pm
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2015 at 2:44 pm by comet.)
you nailed it OP.
you went and learned stuff. You asked about that stuff. You asked again and again about that stuff. You thought about what you learned and how that stuff applies to the world you see around you. Some of the stuff matched your observations pretty darn well. But most importantly you were allowed to choose for yourself based on everything you know.
Teaching is about giving a student everything they need to be the best "themselves" they can be. I hate to admit, that's what I took from the 4 gospels when I had to read them in elementary school
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People lose power and money when people do what you did. Also. We have to remember "facts". average iq is around 105-ish. So asking a fundie not to be a fundie is like asking a horse not to be a horse. Or asking a gorilla why he sleeps in his own poo poo at the local zoo.
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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 3, 2015 at 4:11 pm
(March 2, 2015 at 11:37 am)watchamadoodle Wrote: I used to believe in Noah's Ark and so forth, because I had been indoctrinated and had never bothered to reexamine these beliefs as an adult. I believed in evolution, dinosaurs, etc. while I simultaneously believed the Bible stories were based on real events. I didn't see the cognitive dissonance.
However, when I went to college and began to discuss these issues with friends, I rapidly woke up to the stupidity of my beliefs. It wasn't instantaneous, but it happened eventually. This was in the days before internet, and I was ignorant of comparative religion, philosophy, etc. that might have accelerated the process.
I just don't understand how people today can believe in Noah's Ark in spite of all the resources available through the internet (such as AF). How is that possible? I'm pretty gullible, but I eventually woke up. Many of these Christians are smarter and better educated than me, but they keep believing things that are ridiculous.
EDIT: I especially don't understand how fundamentalists can come to atheist forums and debate these issues without realizing that their beliefs are silly. This is different from those fundamentalists who don't think much about their beliefs.
Like you said , you're gullible, and some people sold you a bunch of unproven crap.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 3, 2015 at 4:12 pm
(March 3, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Godschild Wrote: (March 2, 2015 at 11:37 am)watchamadoodle Wrote: I used to believe in Noah's Ark and so forth, because I had been indoctrinated and had never bothered to reexamine these beliefs as an adult. I believed in evolution, dinosaurs, etc. while I simultaneously believed the Bible stories were based on real events. I didn't see the cognitive dissonance.
However, when I went to college and began to discuss these issues with friends, I rapidly woke up to the stupidity of my beliefs. It wasn't instantaneous, but it happened eventually. This was in the days before internet, and I was ignorant of comparative religion, philosophy, etc. that might have accelerated the process.
I just don't understand how people today can believe in Noah's Ark in spite of all the resources available through the internet (such as AF). How is that possible? I'm pretty gullible, but I eventually woke up. Many of these Christians are smarter and better educated than me, but they keep believing things that are ridiculous.
EDIT: I especially don't understand how fundamentalists can come to atheist forums and debate these issues without realizing that their beliefs are silly. This is different from those fundamentalists who don't think much about their beliefs.
Like you said , you're gullible, and some people sold you a bunch of unproven crap.
GC
Glad we agree on how we view Noah's ark and the rest of the biblical fairy tales.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: How can fundamentalists not wake up?
March 3, 2015 at 4:27 pm
(March 3, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Godschild Wrote: Like you said , you're gullible, and some people sold you a bunch of unproven crap. I assume you mean the unproven crap is atheism.
So how can you not wake up, GC? I could understand if you insulated yourself from all but your fundamentalist brethren, but you are very active here on AF. You seem as smart as most people here, but your beliefs make you look silly.
What would be the harm in simply admitting that the Bible is partly myth? There are lots of Christians that admit this. I guess there is a psychology that goes with being a fundamentalist - the few chosen ones against the corrupt world. There was a good essay about that psychology if I can find it.
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