Are you an Islamophobe?

[FatAndFaithless]

Hooray text!

[Thumpalumpacus]

The one thing I know, or at least the only image that reaches me, is that I'll be torn to pieces in the west for being a Muslim, and end up losing everything, including my own life .

This is patently incorrect. You need to broaden your media consumption to include source from all sides of the political and national spectrum.

There is certainly bigotry against Muslims here in America. It is not something practiced by a majority of people, and certainly your fears of violence are greatly out of proportion with the facts on the ground.

[Cato]

The one thing I know, or at least the only image that reaches me, is that I'll be torn to pieces in the west for being a Muslim, and end up losing everything, including my own life .

And you believe this? Sounds like those in control of the media are responsible for this gross misunderstanding. You are far more likely to suffer physical harm for being the wrong kind of Muslim in an Islamic state than you are to be assaulted in a Western nation.

[robvalue]

Yeah, still waiting to hear where this takes place.

[Dystopia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5L9SExquao

[RobertE]

The last major war was WW2, and all the parties were non Muslims. I don't remember Muslims being present in anything, until Britian invaded Muslim land & converted it by the sword to Judaism (mmm since you can't convert somebody to judaism, they just kicked the people out and brought jews from everywhere to take their lands ).

First of all, what other reason would the Grand Mufti have to visit Hitler and Himmler if it wasn't for war reasons, They both shared common goals in that both Muslims and Hitler (who was raised a Catholic and was influenced by Martin Luther who himself was a Christian and liked the Jewish at the start but then had some sort of unhealthy hatred for them) wanted to exterminate the Jewish people from Europe. Let me give you some information. For the last 2,000 years, Jewish people have been part of major European countries, and the first religion that attempted to exterminate them were the Catholics, we only have to look at the Spanish Inquisition and the way they treated Conversos (Jewish people who were forced to convert to Catholicism.) In the end, it counted for nothing because they were wiped out. So, this continued throughout the centuries and to be honest, the forced conversion of both Catholics and Muslims go hand in hand, both brutal and if you don't convert, you have a 99% chance of dying.

As for the Britain invaded muslim land? Please tell me which land, since I cannot remember. However, I do remember the Desert Rats in El Alamein. Secondly, if your remark was about Palestine and how the Britains converted others to Judaism, you couldn't be more wrong. Please try again. Here is a quote from a link:

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as “the most important asset of the native population.” Ben-Gurion said “under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them.” He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. “Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement,” Ben-Gurion added, “should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.”

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: “They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay.”

Not much to be said about that quote is there?


In a nutshell, what he is trying to say is that the British offered the land to the Arabs since they were simple people and they relied on agriculture for a living. However, because the land was not viable to them i.e. they couldn't grow crops to sustain human life simple because of the condition of the land as bolded above. What good does it do for a farmer to try and raise crops when nothing will happen? Either way, they sold the land to the Jews and they took the opportunity to become wealthy. It is like a first refusal on a car. You offer someone first refusal to someone who wants the car, then he realises that the car doesn't go fast, so after the test drive, he decided to say "no thanks." No harm done, so the seller sells the car to someone else who isn't really interested in the speed but the idea of getting around easier with very little effort sounds appealing to him. So, he buys the runaround. A few weeks later, the same guy (the first refusal guy) comes back and demands the car that was offered since he cannot buy a speedy car because he has insufficient funds. The guy cannot make a demand for the car, he has no right to. It is no longer an option, he was asked if he wanted to buy it, he said no, end of story.

Not much to be said about that quote is there?

Well, the cold war came, it was a war between non-Muslim states. I don't remember a "Khalid" or a "mohammed" in the Cuban missile crisis. Yet I do remember a filthy dirty CIA game to arm Sunni militiants against Russia in Operation Cyclone back in the 80s, which opened hell's gates on the region.

Who supplies extremists with all these fancy m4s & Ak-47s ? who gives them the latest models of Humvees in Iraq ? who used the Sunni/Shia conflict to put oil into the turmoil, since a sunni-shia war = $$$$ for western gun makers ?

If you want to know, it is an ideological war, a sectarian war between two branches of Islam, where there will be no peace. Suffice to say, there is no love lost between the extremist Sunnis, the Sh'ias, Wahabists, Salafists. If you think the Sunny-Shia war is a recent thing and was started by the West, the you clearly are living in cloud cuckoo land, and doing what every single religious person does; blame everyone else except for themselves. As far as I'm concerned, nobody likes war, not even me, but you made your bed, you lie in it. If people are stupid and gullible enough to believe the writings of some religious nutbag like God, Jesus, Allah, Mohammed or Charles Manson, then they don't deserve any respect. Just leave us sane ones out of these silly theological wars. The only thing that will cause the end of this world is not going to be Communism, not nationalism, not capitalism, but theocracies who think they can destroy mankind because they hear voices in their heads.[/color]

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Now, the same story is happening allover Europe, and the far rightists are on the rise.

The one thing I know, or at least the only image that reaches me, is that I'll be torn to pieces in the west for being a Muslim, and end up losing everything, including my own life . And truly, the only image I see, is military officials from the west supporting dictators. Again, as distorted as this message is, my topic in R'iyeh is exactly how I see my image in western mentality : my media told me that. Though I'm not that dumb to follow it blindly.

Eventually led me to manifesting my view : we are all humans, it's our culture that makes us grasp the illusion of difference ; eventually we are all members in the same family.
Sorry for the lecture.

Aren't you a bit of a closet bigot? Your post comes across as such, and as such, I know that in every religion, it is only a minority that messes everything up. Everyone knows that. However, what you have done is to generalise nearly one billion people by stating that you will be torn to pieces in the west for being a muslim. That is the biggest pile of horse manure I have ever read. A westerner has more chance of dying in the middle east for saying that there is no God at all than you practicing your own religion, either in Europe or the United States, that much is clear. Secondly, you'd be surprised what a Muslim can get upto given the freedom they have. In the United Kingdom, muslims are well known for trying to introduce Sharia law by telling people to put their beer down or if a woman wears a short skirt. It is England, land of the free to do whatever you wish. However, those who oppose the sharia law are being silenced by the authorities. Muslims have more rights in the United Kingdom than the Indigenous people do.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Are you talking about the guy that insisted that Islam is a religion of peace? That Bush? The same guy that was overly chummy with the Sauds?

Bush was an idiot for invading Iraq, but the man was no holy warrior. You'll have to go further to the right to find examples of what you're after.

To be fair, DoD briefing notes bore these cover sheets:













While it may not have been Dubya, there was certainly a religious impulsion from someone in the DoD. I wonder if that same intelligence analysts who complied these briefings also gave advice in the run-up to the war? Or was it Rumsfeld who directed that Biblical quotes be used to cover DoD briefing reports?

[WinterHold]

Ben Davis

1) I would sure keep an eye on the results, glad to know the anti-immigrants are losing. I just support multiculturalism because truly, all societies that didn't go for it, were left to fall (Middle East being the first ; since the countries there are very nationalistic and anti immigration).

2)I did find this though :

Racially or religiously aggravated public fear, alarm or distress offences also increased (by 12%).

That's from http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_392380.pdf , september 2014.

But that doesn't concern Muslims alone, since other religions & race crimes are also involved.
Another person also stated to me once that the British society has a large number of Salafi Sunnies, who poses a large bulk of negativity.
Though, it's not what I expected. Hearing the news of the protests in Germany, did give me true paranoia that this rightist movement is increasing dramatically.

And exactly. If religions is forced on people, then it's useless. It's always a matter of personal faith. While all of us, with a simple look at the mirror would know the truth : we are the same.

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robvalue

The mosque attacks and throwing pigs' heads inside and shit, that's what raised my alarm.
I've been hearing many reports that it's on the rise..but juding from members here -especially from UK- what you say is true.

FatAndFaithless

Believe it or not, I have my doubts that 9/11 was ever a terrorist attack ; rather an inside job. By physics, many judged that the towers cannot go down like that, unless you trigger them with C4 at the bases..
Well there' also another building that fell during the incident without being touched.
Anything about Al-Qaeda or any affiliates with operation cyclone, would not gain my trust, though would point me to the CIA directly.

BTW false flags are widely adopted in the ME, that's why I believe in them and don't at all, consider them a mere conspiracy mumbo jumbo.

Thanks for correcting what i said earlier ; though. But I don't trust bush. I know he's full of shit, a capitalist fuck who played the string of religion however he wanted to ; just like his dad. Though he's a worse liar. The state's & the west -not all of it- foreign policy, is so different from their domestic one. Visiting here would make you see that..

[Dystopia]

I would sure keep an eye on the results, glad to know the anti-immigrants are losing. I just support multiculturalism because truly, all societies that didn't go for it, were left to fall (Middle East being the first ; since the countries there are very nationalistic and anti immigration).

Really? Japan might just disagree with you (99% of the population is Yamato Japanese and ethnically similar) - I'd like to know why a country is destined to fail for not being multicultural - The number of cultures has nothing to do with quality of life, economic prosperity and general well being.

[WinterHold]

I quite agree that someone has to be sick and twisted to kill the way the atheist at Chapel Hill or the shooters in Paris did. No one here will suggest that the end of religion will bring an end to madness or cruelty. As you have pointed out, imperialism, greed, and politics can cause plenty of havoc. I think it's fair to say you will also find few supporters among atheists here for W Bush or his warmongering policies in the Middle East.

Ah, the idea itself of killing somebody who didn't kill, simply guides to a sadistic brain, or a mentality polluted by hatred for so long.

The Chapel Hill killer ; and I bet on this, took the anti-theist extremist stand just as an excuse to kill. That was his blanket and how his brain did the logic. This guy didn't need atheism to kill : he just used it as a cover.

But it's how I see terrorists too ; they are mostly poor, oppressed young guys, growing a deep antisocial & hatred towards society, these kids don't need Islam to blow things up.

All that said, the line between madness and religious fanaticism seems to be a blurry one. Without religion, you will still have crazy people doing crazy things. Without religion, you will still have greedy, imperialistic countries harming and exploiting weaker nations. But with religion, you can get otherwise sane people to do crazy things and support imperialistic policies in the name of some "crusade/jihad".

Yep..the game of popes and Imams. Their favorite one ; actually.

The 9/11 hijackers came from middle class families and some of whom were very well educated. They might have had great futures working promising jobs and contributing to society. Instead, they flew planes into buildings and murdered thousands. Why? They were convinced that God wills it and God would reward them. However you may think they got Islam wrong, they did believe it.

On this one precisely, I do believe 9/11 was an inside job ; of course with Islamists being used again.
Though, the Wahabbi/Salafi faith does produce this type of people.. a dilemma that I try to make my logic around : why would a sane person believe this mentality ?

DeistPaladin, you must be insane to believe, that the road of mercy comes by plundering others & murdering them. I just can't wrap my head around this.

The wahhabi list contains shameful acts, and I have the Arabic history books so I read in details that doesn't reach the western crowd easily. They do insane stuff. In saudi arabia, they reached the levels of mass massacres.

Did they believe it ? or were they sadistic, and truly were seeking an easy path to fortune ?
There's a famous Muslim scholar -who had long experience with the original wahhabi branch in saudi arabia-, who said that they do believe in that to the core.

If there's one thing I should say, all the source of darkness that you see, comes from Sunni/Wahabbi & Salafi Islam along with the persian shia islam.

Politics and economics can cause cruelty and suffering too but religion is uniquely dangerous because it has no "reality check". Communism collapsed because people finally realized that the promised "worker's paradise" never came. Other imperialistic, economic or political ideologies collapse when people realize they're not delivering the goods. Religion promises a reward after we're dead and can't come back to tell anyone about it. Religion deals not with real political or economic events but unseen, undetectable forces that can't be understood or explained. There's no "reality check" to step on the breaks.

As all of this is true, I still think Islam is not dangerous to others ; and I totally think I can prove it..actually you gave me an idea for a new series of topics that you guys would see !!

What makes Islamo-Christianity especially dangerous are two things:
1. The God/Satan Conflict: According to both religions, the universe is a battleground between two sides. One is the god your religion serves, the sources of goodness in the universe, and the other is Satan. If therefore someone isn't part of your religion, it narrows it down who they serve (or at least are being duped by) doesn't it?

Yes. Going astray in Islam (according to the Quran) does mean you fell to Satan.

If you think your neighbors are working for The Devil, you are capable of doing anything to them. Islamo-Christianity literally demonizes others.

Here's where I think the Quran presents a path you wouldn't actually expect. The same path that makes love this place and stay in it..
Well, going astray doesn't mean you work for satan, rather he played a cruel joke on you ; and since you're a human, actually it's your battle alone. I have no relationship with it. Let alone ; maybe satan is playing me too ?? so according to the Quran, I can't judge.

2. The Faith-Based Salvation Concept: Islamo-Christianity suggest that life is just a transitory stage, a "test" that determines where we will spend eternity. The two outcomes are eternal, horrific punishment or eternal bliss in Heaven. The stakes are as high as they can be.

Being a matter that comes after death, it shouldn't at all affect how we treat each other on earth. Yet, for a Muslim, they should always be good so they truly get heaven ; i.e stay as much as possible away from harming others.

So what's a little torture on this earth if you save a soul for Heaven? So what's a little murder on this earth if you save more souls for eternity? If you send some unrepentant blasphemer to Hell a little early and by doing so, prevent him from causing the loss of faith of others, thereby saving more souls, isn't that a good thing?

By my reading to the Quran ; you can't actually do that. Even Mohammed peace be upon him was told, in many occasions, to stop dreaming about guiding everybody to Islam.
It's a personal test, and if god wanted everybody converted, god would do it now. Though, each person -alone- must go through this trial.

God in the Quran, did also create evil. To your surprise, I'm sure, god actually in some cases inflict evil upon you to see what you do, or allow evil people to have a loud voice. Thus, if we say a blasphemer talks against islam, god gave him that voice, then why would I intervene ? Matter in fact, he is a tool of god : since allah did create evil and does inflict evil sometimes as a test obstacle to see what you do.

I would only intervene when he carries a chainsaw and starts to raid Muslim homes ; otherwise : let him speak ; god created him not me.

Now, of course, 99% of Muslims and Christians don't take it to that extreme. I'm just showing how the potential is inherently there for anyone who really is convinced.

If they believe in what you said (and sadly many do) then yes.

Our policies have certainly made a mess of everything. As an American, I'm sincerely sorry we failed to stop W Bush from coming to power. I'm sorry we allowed 9/11 to drive us mad and follow the sociopaths in the Bush administration who were willing to exploit that to lie us into a war of aggression in Iraq that destabilized the region. I'm sorry that a few major corporations that make money off the American war machine have control over our media and most Americans have no idea what's going on in the world.

Appreciated..truly.

None of that absolves religion from any responsibility for the harm it does.

Yes, the ISIS for example has no excuses.

The Middle-East used to be a place of learning and enlightenment. It used to keep alive the knowledge of Greeco-Roman civilization. The mighty have fallen. The mild form of Islam that allowed the golden age of Islamic civilization was replaced by a more radical strain. Western imperialism isn't helping but that's not the cause of the current Dark Age in the Muslim world.

It's the arab dictators who are the main reason, along with the Sunni/Shia militias who patrol the region like moth.
The blame on the west comes, from Sykes-Picot, Israel & funding the dictators -like the American ongoing help to Saudi Arabia for example-.

I mean it shouldn't reach the level of America, sending its own countrymen, to defend saudi ass..that's just terrible.

Really not true, although there are bigots everywhere.

I would choose where I get my news more wisely from now on.

None of that means we can't criticize Islam or inspect the ideology for what might promote violence. I'm willing to grant that 99% of Christians are good people but that doesn't mean I don't criticize Christianity as being a bad religion. Same is true for Islam. It's the ideology I have a problem with, not the people.

This what I would expect, it's what I would do -and did- all my life. I was born a Sunni, I didn't leave that faith without criticizing it. Above all, this what made humans get over destructive conflicts & arguments.

Muslims escape that criticism by becoming moderate Muslims (shedding the bad parts, like moderate Christians do with their religion) or better yet, becoming ex-Muslims.

I'm not converting to atheism -_-.
Though, I'm trying to expose the truth rather than shedding it.