JW looking for clarity

[Heywood]

I can't fathom what existing multiple time dimensions would be like from a human perspective.  It is not logically impossible though and can be coherently describe with math.  So it is certainly not out of the question or whimsical thinking.

I do believe in God but with that being said, I do find many theistic positions to be untenable.  The position that God is outside of reality for instance. Intellect outside reality is nonsensical.  Intelligence is about knowing, understanding, navigating, a reality.  Intellect cannot exist outside a reality. God cannot exist outside a reality.  However God can be outside our sub reality.

A single being existing in multiple time dimensions is a contradiction. Time is a measure of change of states. So someone changing at two (or more) different rates doesn't make sense unless different body parts are changing at different rates. Hence, that would probably hurt.

I imagine that a one dimensional being would say the same thing about multiple spatial dimensions.  "Your foot moving in two different directions....that's got to hurt".  Of course we know it doesn't.

If there were two time dimensions then time would be plane instead of a line.  Moving thru time would be moving thru a plane.  I can see it causing problems with causality but not inflicting physical pain.

[Surgenator]

A single being existing in multiple time dimensions is a contradiction. Time is a measure of change of states. So someone changing at two (or more) different rates doesn't make sense unless different body parts are changing at different rates. Hence, that would probably hurt.

I imagine that a one dimensional being would say the same thing about multiple spatial dimensions.  "Your foot moving in two different directions....that's got to hurt".  Of course we know it doesn't.

If there were two time dimensions then time would be plane instead of a line.  Moving thru time would be moving thru a plane.  I can see it causing problems with causality but not inflicting physical pain.

Temporal dimension don't work the same way as spatial. Explain how a foot can be 10 years and 90 years? It is a violation of excluded middle law of logic. 

[Alex K]

I don't understand your problem, Surge

[Heywood]

I imagine that a one dimensional being would say the same thing about multiple spatial dimensions.  "Your foot moving in two different directions....that's got to hurt".  Of course we know it doesn't.

If there were two time dimensions then time would be plane instead of a line.  Moving thru time would be moving thru a plane.  I can see it causing problems with causality but not inflicting physical pain.

Temporal dimension don't work the same way as spatial. Explain how a foot can be 10 years and 90 years? It is a violation of excluded middle law of logic. 

How can a vehicle travel north and west at the same time?  Of course we know the answer to that.  The more you travel north, the less you travel west and vis versa.  It could be that all your momentum is traveling north and none of it is going west.  Couldn't our universe right now have more than one temporal dimension?  Say it had two temporal dimensions.  If all our momentum was in one direction how would we know the other temporal dimension exists?

Suppose the way it was is that you couldn't travel in both temporal dimensions at the same time.  You travel in one temporal dimension and then you turn and travel into another.  How would you know?  Maybe virtual particles do not pop in and out of existence but rather just change the temporal dimension they are traveling thru.  When they are at the same point of space time as us and traveling in the same temporal dimension as us, we see them.  When they change temporal direction, it looks to us that they've left existence. 

I could probably think about this stuff better if I smoked a bowl or soomething.

[pocaracas]

Hello all. This is my first post. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Welcome aboard!
You should have made an intro post... Would have been nicer there!

I have been agnostic for about a year now. I am open minded for either belief or non belief in god.

Never forget, if you open your mind too much, your brain will fall out!

I have read a lot on atheist forums and also christian apologetics websites. My favorite is William Lane Craig. I am sure he has some haters here but regardless, he is one of the smartest mind on the theist side.

The man does like the sound of his voice and he does make himself sound important and knowledgeable by using a lot of big words.... Doesn't mean he says anything correct...

His greatest skill in my mind, is how well he deconstructs bad/faulty arguments of those on the atheist side.

People are only human, prone to human flaws... which is to say that he also is guilty of a few of his own... on purpose, or unwittingly, I know not... but they do show once in a while.
Of course, his greatest one is "assume there is a god - work from there".

For me, the simple, "show me evidence of god" argument is lacking.

Well, it would help with the credibility detail...
Some actual evidence, like god itself actually having a chat with everyone in the world at once and putting an end to multiple religions, religious-based conflicts, religious psychological abuse, etc...

Given the absence of such an event -EVER in written history- the existence of such a being doesn't sound like a credible proposition.

I don't believe that a deity that by logic would be a being that transcends space and time as we know it would be easily defined in that space and time. I just struggle the most with the fact that it seems like this universe had a start.

The Universe, as we know it, does seem to have begun its trip about 14 billion years ago... What was it like prior? we have no way of discerning... we have no way of telling if there was a prior at all, so why bring along an extra player... an extra layer of supposition?

And the other part that I struggle with, is that it seems like humanity is on a death spiral. I have read that this is a relatively peaceful time in human history and we have so many advances here and there. But when you look at global warming, nuclear warfare capabilities, worsening poverty issues, etc... it feel like humans will be bring on their own death within the next 100 years or so.

Such is the fate of our actions on this planet... hopefully, life will continue and will become sentient once more, eventually...

Some other things that will have no effect on me...

Bashing JWs- I believe strongly that JW's are great people that do have many faults in the organization and the people but overall it is a group of people that try their best to be good hardworking fellow citizens. And I know  all the history that you can find in 10 seconds on google. I don't believe its a cult and that they use brain washing as a tactic.

People are people... most just want to live and let live.
Some are actively making it greedily better for them, while worsening everything for everyone else.

God's immorality in the bible - I know this is a favorite of many atheist. I remember Matt from the atheist experience podcast once saying that he is more moral than god because of the things that god condoned in the bible. First of all, if you can be a MORE moral person that implies a moral BEST. If there is a moral best, then that implies absolute morals. And second of all, Matt's point was that even if there was a god he would be proud that he didn't serve him in any way. But then he would kind of be proving the bibles point that men fell away because they thought they knew better... Also, I don't believe that the bible reflects gods ideal condition. I don't believe the mosaic law was a perfect law. But I do believe that it could be argued that the mosaic law was the best possible law for an imperfect system.

Ah, the bible... morality...
How did the chinese cope with all the lacking morality until christians arrived there in the 1500's?
Ever noticed how geographically constrained religions seem to be (well, have been up until a century ago)?

"Matter cannot be created or destroyed" - Arguments like this are a laymans understanding of physical laws. I am a layman so I try not to get into such arguments. But I know that if it was such a good argument. then more atheist in the public world would employ it more often. From my lay understanding, some physical laws were not set until some time after the universe came into existence.

So... particle/anti-particle anihilation isn't a thing, huh?

Please also feel free to ask any questions about what Jehovah's witnesses believe. Thanks!

They believe something without any evidence for it... who cares about the details?