The interesting history they don't teach in schools

[nihilistcat]

So we already have plenty of alternatives to the state. Private parties, communities, etc., can in fact resolve their own disputes. Amazing right, who would have thought anyone could even exist without an Uncle Sam sugar daddy

Do you have any historical examples, on a national level? 

We have only pieces of the puzzle (e.g. employee owned/managed firms in the US, restorative justice in Scandinavia, direct democracy in Switzerland, etc.), but giant sociological and political leaps should be preceded by experimentation (again, I think experimentation and gradual change is the better approach). 

Our politics and society will change whether we like it or not. Political arrangements are no different than everything else in the universe, they change in response to pressure. So bad news for those who desire safety and predictability (even at the expense of progress and sociological evolution). 

Restorative justice, which has been working amazingly in Scandinavia for years, removes the state from the dispute. In the US criminals are prosecuted by the state, in restorative justice jurisdictions, the offender, community, victim, etc. (everyone who was actually effected by the crime) is involved with the case. Prisons in Scandinavia are truly transformative (they work to reform offenders). Prison sentences are much shorter, their prisons are much more humane, and recidivism rates are several times lower than the US. It's so successful, they're closing down prisons in some Scandinavian states (while here in the US, our prisons are so overcapacity, we're hiring private prison contractors to take the overflow, and can you imagine the dystopian potential when you mix crony capitalism with prison privatization). 

As I said above, 12% of the US economy is employee owned/managed (and multiple studies show that these firms outperform their conventional counterparts), and direct democracy has worked extremely well in Switzerland for centuries. So we have a lot to build on and inform our experimentation. Problem is, people in our society are so accustomed to authoritarianism, they're desensitized to it and in some cases they can't even recognize it (and of course there's many entrenched interests that profit from authoritarianism). So the way I see things is ... an enlightenment period will have to precede these sort of ambitious efforts (or else it will never be viable politically). We need the space and resources to experiment, and accomplishing that will require a culture shift. That begins with an acknowledgement of the harm caused by authoritarianism, how it infects just about every aspect of our lives, and also a recognition that we're not as "free" as we could be. It begins with debunking the sense of inevitability that many associate with different forms of authoritarianism. We accept many things, even things that we know are bad, as a foregone conclusion ... when we don't have to. This is the sort of awareness that I'm talking about. 

[bennyboy]

Not to be blunt, Scandinavian people and American people are very different. To be blunt, Americans are belligerent and unintelligent by nature. Scandinavians are famous for being peaceful and sensible; Americans are famous for bombing brown people and carrying guns in their purses.
Now, I'm not saying gradual change couldn't occur. But I think it's likely that America will be involved in a major war before they can finish any kind of political evolution. And the next face of American culture is likely to be whatever comes out of that war.

[KUSA]

Not to be blunt, Scandinavian people and American people are very different. To be blunt, Americans are belligerent and unintelligent by nature. Scandinavians are famous for being peaceful and sensible; Americans are famous for bombing brown people and carrying guns in their purses.
Now, I'm not saying gradual change couldn't occur. But I think it's likely that America will be involved in a major war before they can finish any kind of political evolution. And the next face of American culture is likely to be whatever comes out of that war.

Fuck you asshole.

[Exian]

You mention that 12% of the economy is employee owned/managed, do you expect that to remain unchanged after thr imagined gradual revolution?

[bennyboy]

Not to be blunt, Scandinavian people and American people are very different. To be blunt, Americans are belligerent and unintelligent by nature. Scandinavians are famous for being peaceful and sensible; Americans are famous for bombing brown people and carrying guns in their purses.
Now, I'm not saying gradual change couldn't occur. But I think it's likely that America will be involved in a major war before they can finish any kind of political evolution. And the next face of American culture is likely to be whatever comes out of that war.

Fuck you asshole.

What a peaceful, sensible and intelligent response!  You showed me what's what, huh?

Do you actually disagree with anything I said, or are you just hurt that someone would say out loud what everyone already knows?  Let's itemize what I said, and you can tell me which items are false:
-Scandinavians are generally peaceful.
-Scandinavians are generally sensible.
-Americans have killed MANY more brown people than vice versa.
-More Americans own and carry guns than citizens of other countries.

I'll bet you wish I was standing in front of you, so you could beat the truth into me, right? And that's why Americans are not the right society in which to test anarchical ideas-- it will devolve right away into Christian nuttery and gun-waving shootouts. And I wouldn't want to think what would happen to the black people and their "equality" if small communities were left to govern themselves.

[KUSA]

Fuck you asshole.

What a peaceful, sensible and intelligent response!  You showed me what's what, huh?

Do you actually disagree with anything I said, or are you just hurt that someone would say out loud what everyone already knows?  Let's itemize what I said, and you can tell me which items are false:
-Scandinavians are generally peaceful.
-Scandinavians are generally sensible.
-Americans have killed MANY more brown people than vice versa.
-More Americans own and carry guns than citizens of other countries.

I'll bet you wish I was standing in front of you, so you could beat the truth into me, right? And that's why Americans are not the right society in which to test anarchical ideas-- it will devolve right away into Christian nuttery and gun-waving shootouts. And I wouldn't want to think what would happen to the black people and their "equality" if small communities were left to govern themselves.

Eat a dick.

[bennyboy]

Eat a dick.

Another excellent and intelligent argument.

[Minimalist]

Anyone ever see Oliver Stone's Secret History of the United States?

Eye opening.

[bennyboy]

Anyone ever see Oliver Stone's Secret History of the United States?

Eye opening.

Would you mind giving a couple of crib notes for us?  What was eye opening about it?

[Minimalist]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Ston...ted_States


Study at your leisure.